Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Werewolf]

Energy storage doesn't need to be fancy battery tech or even electrochemical. Mechanical methods are more than good enough (pumped hydro, pressurised air, etc). We don't need anything from China for this. The reason nobody has taken energy storage seriously in recent decades is not that it's difficult, it's because it didn't make much economic sense given the low prices of fossil fuels. Obviously that trade-off has changed.

Also the minor issue that mechanical energy storage tends to require a lot of room for what can be quite limited capacity.

Pumped storage is great, if you've got enough large lakes one at the top of a hill and one at the bottom (it tends to be extremely disruptive to the environment, usually requiring large areas to be flooded), pressurised air is good but requires very large pressure vessels to do it (IIRC some countries with lots of nice mountains use tunnels dug into granite then lined), solid weight storage requires both a lot of space and either a lot of height or depth.

Battery tech has the advantage that it doesn't require specific geological conditions to do, and it's easier to maintain safely.

 

[Minusorange]

It's all good though.

Just buy a new kettle.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565298102524846080

I wouldn't have thought the efficiency savings on a 10 year old kettle vs a new kettle would be that much difference given it's just a metal coil that gets hot and a temperature sensor to flick off the switch, it's a pretty basic design that just works and can't really be improved ? You could always just fill the kettle to boil what you need so it's quicker and doesn't waste energy by boiling water you're not going to use

 

[dl8860]

I just started on Octopus Go today. I’ve no EV

Did you lie about having one or just convince them to let you go on the tariff without having one?

 

[purplesky]

Lol, think we're going to see more debt donkeys like this "middle-class" pleb with his interest-only mortgage and his hyperinflated energy bills to heat it:

Middle-Class shocker

 

[andy_mk3]

I wouldn't have thought the efficiency savings on a 10 year old kettle vs a new kettle would be that much difference given it's just a metal coil that gets hot and a temperature sensor to flick off the switch, it's a pretty basic design that just works and can't really be improved ? You could always just fill the kettle to boil what you need so it's quicker and doesn't waste energy by boiling water you're not going to use

I agree. Kettles are pretty efficient at what they do, near enough 100% of the engergy used goes into heating the water. The only real loss is the heat lost through the water out the body of the kettle. I can't see that newer kettles are any different.

 

[purplesky]

Saving power on heating water in kettles is easy. Only need the kettle on for a fraction of the time. Just enough for the water to remain warm and perfect for tea and coffee.

 

[jpaul]

I wouldn't have thought the efficiency savings on a 10 year old kettle vs a new kettle

hmmh - maybe before your time
from an engineering perspective seems like a dilemma the new kettle designs with flat element at base seem intrinsically less efficient than older element immersed in the liquid (like immersion tank), -but- you can't boil small quantities, they reduce scale though.

Energy storage doesn't need to be fancy battery tech or even electrochemical. Mechanical methods are more than good enough (pumped hydro, pressurised air, etc). We don't need anything from China for this. The reason nobody has taken energy storage seriously in recent decades is not that it's difficult, it's because it didn't make much economic sense given the low prices of fossil fuels. Obviously that trade-off has changed.

yes - I suppose I forgot green hydrogen too, even if there is inefficiency in production .., if you have a bounty of renewables
Biden now subsidised the raw fuel,($3/kg) so the hydrogen hgv (&car) will take off there, shell investing on the eu with biggest hydrolysys capabillity
putting them out at sea by the windfarm - old oil rigs? and piping in the hydrogen would be ironic.

seeing petrol at only 1.64 today, was a small mercy.

 

[HACO]

Also the minor issue that mechanical energy storage tends to require a lot of room for what can be quite limited capacity.

Pumped storage is great, if you've got enough large lakes one at the top of a hill and one at the bottom (it tends to be extremely disruptive to the environment, usually requiring large areas to be flooded), pressurised air is good but requires very large pressure vessels to do it (IIRC some countries with lots of nice mountains use tunnels dug into granite then lined), solid weight storage requires both a lot of space and either a lot of weight or depth.

Fair point about pumped hydro, it's certainly not doable everywhere but we can make it work if we need to. As for pressurised air, one good solution is underwater storage which is now gaining a lot of popularity and would suit us very well.

Battery tech has the advantage that it doesn't require specific geological conditions to do, and it's easier to maintain safely.

Biggest problem with battery tech is the cost and availability. UK's energy usage is about ~300 tWh per year, or ~820m kWh per day. Global Li-on production capacity is about 950m kWh per year. So a year's global supply is barely enough to store one small country's energy for 1 day. There just isn't enough production capacity for this to be a viable solution across entire countries. Even if production goes 10x or even 50x, it still won't be a viable solution.

Also wouldn't say batteries are easier to maintain safely either. Batteries like to explode and are sensitive to both low and high temperatures as well as other environmental changes in terms of both degradation and safety so they will need hefty climate control systems as well. In the end we're condensing a lot of energy into a small space so keeping it safe isn't going to be easy or cheap regardless of the method.

 

[Bluecube]

Did you lie about having one or just convince them to let you go on the tariff without having one?

I wasn‘t asked at any point in the online process

 

[dl8860]

Have been in a muddle all day about worrying about missing out on Octopus Go fix for 12 months at 40p/unit, and wishing I had an EV or PHEV.

But prices for PHEV and electric cars are just insane at the minute. Went on comparison site to see what my current car would cost as a PHEV. I am leasing (PCH) a Volvo V90, on 3rd year of lease currently. Paid 1 month up front, and 10k miles per year, and the monthly is 320 quid. If I wanted to lease the same car but from brand new, as a PHEV, on same terms, it would be 1208 per month.

Makes me feel less bad about the fact my electric might go up 100 quid a month!

 

[dl8860]

I wasn‘t asked at any point in the online process

How did you manage to do it via an online process? When I tried to sign up, it said the only way was to call. Or were you already an Octopus customer just on a different tariff?

 

[Bluecube]

How did you manage to do it via an online process? When I tried to sign up, it said the only way was to call. Or were you already an Octopus customer just on a different tariff?

I was already a customer on the variable tariff. It was a few weeks ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy but I came across a link encouraging signing up for a smart meter and smart tariff. I just followed it, requested the smart meters be installed and once they were up and running I was sent an email asking to confirm acceptance of the new tariff.

 

[HungryHippos]

How did you manage to do it via an online process? When I tried to sign up, it said the only way was to call. Or were you already an Octopus customer just on a different tariff?

You need to phone Octopus and say you want to get onto a smart tariff like Go, they will have to onboard you onto the capped variable tariff first.

Once onboard you can switch online to the other tariffs.

You need a working smart meter though that can send 30 min readings.

 

[Puzzled]

You need to phone Octopus and say you want to get onto a smart tariff like Go, they will have to onboard you onto the capped variable tariff first.

Once onboard you can switch online to the other tariffs.

You need a working smart meter though that can send 30 min readings.

Or email them if you want to reduce questions.

You'll have a record of enquiring before they stick the prices up as well.

That said, they won't switch you over until they have 2 weeks of readings so whether they'll honour the current tariff at that time if prices go up shortly is uncertain.

 

[HungryHippos]

Or email them if you want to reduce questions.

You'll have a record of enquiring before they stick the prices up as well.

That said, they won't switch you over until they have 2 weeks of readings so whether they'll honour the current tariff at that time if prices go up shortly is uncertain.

You can email them but I found the email at the moment very slow, you don't need to reduce questions really.

Call them once, they'll start you migrating over, then you can actually do the rest online yourself anyway.

I don't think they need 2 weeks of readings? They seemed happy to let me switch to Agile or Go after just a few days of 30 min readings, maybe it's less now.

 

[Puzzled]

You can email them but I found the email at the moment very slow, you don't need to reduce questions really.

Call them once, they'll start you migrating over, then you can actually do the rest online yourself anyway.

I don't think they need 2 weeks of readings? They seemed happy to let me switch to Agile or Go after just a few days of 30 min readings, maybe it's less now.

Ah maybe the 2 weeks was for a new smart meter.

Is octopus letting people switch from other companies to Go then, that's interesting.

 

[chrcoluk]

Labour are unelectable with Starmer in charge and no recognisable MP's other than the likes of Abbot or Rayner (who are all jokes).

If there was another election I would guess at either a reduced Tory majority or a re-run of the May years.

However an election in the next 12 months would be pure self indulgence.

Have you seen the Keir thread? He is basically selling himself to people like you, making a tory lite party, you should be happy.

No to the unions, no nationalisation, no big spending plans other than the cost of living crisis. (less borrowing than truss).

Or do you simple consider it impossible due to the party name?

 

[HungryHippos]

Ah maybe the 2 weeks was for a new smart meter.

Is octopus letting people switch from other companies to Go then, that's interesting.

Yes, you can't just switch to them and hang about on a cap variable tariff that's all.

 

[chrcoluk]

Here is another offering from Octopus, not seen it before.

If it is an Eco 7 tariff as it states, can't see you needing an EV to get on it.
Can't find any other info on it.

Thats not much worse than the GO tariff, where are you seeing this?

--

Its a variant of Octopus GO. So officially its for EV owners.

FAQs about Octopus Go Green, the tariff just for EV drivers

All the questions you've ever had about our charging tariff for EVs, Octopus Go Green, answered.

octopus.energy

 

[Surveyor]

Its a variant of Octopus GO. So officially its for EV owners.

FAQs about Octopus Go Green, the tariff just for EV drivers

All the questions you've ever had about our charging tariff for EVs, Octopus Go Green, answered.

octopus.energy

Not all EV drivers. As pointed out in earlier replies:

It is exclusively for Volkwagen, Audi, SEAT, Skoda or Cupra EV drivers