Energy Suppliers

[b0rn2sk8]

Can we please ditch the notion that coal is cheap? The reason our grid is so reliant on gas is that coal was too expensive and too polluting to use. North Sea investment died off because it was too expensive compared to cheaper imports.

Renewables have been cheaper than fossil fuels for a long time, they are just intermittent. Even nuclear is probably cheaper than gas at the moment.

The deployment of more renewables and nuclear is hampered rampant nimbyism, short termism and ideology leading to frankly poor government policy making.

Campaigners near me are trying to block the interconnect for a new massive off shore wind farm because ‘the environment’ otherwise known as they don’t want the construction work near their house despite the cables being buried and there will be no visible sign of them once completed. Talk about massive own goals…

It’s this government who effectively blocked onshore wind and destroyed the solar market in one foul swoop a few years ago and both are by far the cheapest form of generating electricity. Well played.

It’s a beautiful day out today, my neighbours relatively small solar array is probably doing 3-4kw and the wind is also blowing a gale out my way. We could be doing much better…

Don’t get me wrong, we still need a lot of fossil fuels to fill the gaps, but we could be burning less, significantly less for that matter.

 

[Simon]

For millions £200 a year for energy (that isnt a loan) would be a god send. It would also be much more then that if it was targeted. £500 could mean the world of difference to some people.

Ok £200 is a lot but it’s a irrelevant argument :

What incentive if there to run a business at a profit to then just give it away ? Why should U.K. residents get money made all around the world.

As said the profit is going back to shareholders. Many of which are pension funds. There is not £9.5b cash just going into a bank account

 

[chrcoluk]

How much would it cost for the government to pay for panels on every home that passes means testing and subsidise it still for the rest? Maybe they stick them on top of government buildings like hospitals as well.

 

[chrcoluk]

Ok £200 is a lot but it’s a irrelevant argument :

What incentive if there to run a business at a profit to then just give it away ? Why should U.K. residents get money made all around the world.

As said the profit is going back to shareholders. Many of which are pension funds. There is not £9.5b cash just going into a bank account

Sorry tried to quote in my above post but wouldnt let me.

Ok now we getting to your real point, you dont want them to be taxed in general to protect the shareholders.

Ultimately investing is always risky, there is no guarantee in life other than death, and I wouldnt expect the entire profit to be taxed away just a portion of it. A reason why I dont put money in pension funds.

I think any subsidises could actually be funded via general taxation, I dont think a windfall tax is the only option, however I would prefer a windfall tax vs giving no meaningful support. Governments have a role of money redistribution, so things like this can happen and will happen from time to time.

Also BP is not a fully independent company from governments when it comes to financing.

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/bp
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-tax-on-north-sea-gas-and-oil-for-three-years

So this is ok? But to tax something back when the times are good isnt?

 

[Sinbad2000]

People want green energy and we closed coal, shut down north sea investments and rely on imports now... The issue is supply and demand, and would you rather money go into british companies and pensions or into Russian pockets?

Who is going to pay for these massive renewable projects? its not going to be start ups. BP announced 25GW of renewable energy programs. Much like Norway, oil money is now funding a transition into green energy / transport.

I thought that UK producers were exporting the bulk of their output to Europe - chasing the highest prices in the market? And local consumers have to compete with that...

 

[Simon]

How much would it cost for the government to pay for panels on every home that passes means testing and subsidise it still for the rest? Maybe they stick them on top of government buildings like hospitals as well.

This would be better than ASHP too

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I thought that UK producers were exporting the bulk of their output to Europe - chasing the highest prices in the market? And local consumers have to compete with that...

They are, it’s a global commodity and has a market price. The U.K. government privatised the energy sector many decades ago now.

 

[SPG]

This would be better than ASHP too

It should be a 100% requirement on all new builds, if not for homes but all new builds over X size.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

If you build the house properly in the first place, it should barely take any energy to heat all winter. Houses built to the passive standard don’t actually need heating at all.

The fact is we still haven’t learnt and we still don’t have proper green standards for new properties. You see houses with two token solar panels to get them up to the EPC requirements instead of having better insulation, it’s a complete joke. They only do it because it’s cheaper than building it properly in the first place.

 

[Simon]

Sorry tried to quote in my above post but wouldnt let me.

Ok now we getting to your real point, you dont want them to be taxed in general to protect the shareholders.

Ultimately investing is always risky, there is no guarantee in life other than death, and I wouldnt expect the entire profit to be taxed away just a portion of it. A reason why I dont put money in pension funds.

I think any subsidises could actually be funded via general taxation, I dont think a windfall tax is the only option, however I would prefer a windfall tax vs giving no meaningful support. Governments have a role of money redistribution, so things like this can happen and will happen from time to time.

Also BP is not a fully independent company from governments when it comes to financing.

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/bp
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-tax-on-north-sea-gas-and-oil-for-three-years

So this is ok? But to tax something back when the times are good isnt?

Last year they lost $5.7billion, should have everyone in the country given them $100?

 

[RoboCod]

People want green energy and we closed coal, shut down north sea investments and rely on imports now... The issue is supply and demand, and would you rather money go into british companies and pensions or into Russian pockets?

Who is going to pay for these massive renewable projects? its not going to be start ups. BP announced 25GW of renewable energy programs. Much like Norway, oil money is now funding a transition into green energy / transport.

Ok, so how does this justify BP recording record profits whilst the consumer pays soaring energy prices? From your post, I'm led to believe you're content with the situation

 

[Simon]

What about amazon ? What about any company who makes money.


Record profits, what source? How much of profits is from selling gas? They sold energy at market rates this year after doing the same last year and lost $6 billion.

This happens everytime oil companies post results. Usually it’s fuel prices that are the issue

 

[RoboCod]

What about amazon ? What about any company who makes money.

Not the topic of conversation, amazon aren't providing a life/death service.

Record profits, what source? How much of profits is from selling gas? They sold energy at market rates this year after doing the same last year and lost $6 billion.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bp+...d-xiaomi-rvo3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

This happens everytime oil companies post results. Usually it’s fuel prices that are the issue

So you're content?

I'm still failing to see the point of your previous post too. Where is there correlation and causation with BP making record profits and green energy being pushed? You just seem to regularly push an anti green agenda. Are you from an ex pit mining community? I see some coal chuntering too, but clearly reopening coal power stations is a bad idea.

 

[Simon]

I just trying to provide a measured view. Yes energy prices are crazy but let’s make sure we understand why rather than point the finger.

Shell or Bp also aren’t privatised so they exist to make sustainable returns. And I don’t think you understand the energy market if you think all oil company profit is from gas. High prices are due to the market and they fact North Sea production has massively dropped as the focus has been on green and no new production has been brought on in years.

Highest in 8 years is not ‘record’ profits

Who is going to pay billions for the U.K. offshore wind turbine acreage ? It’s not a startup company.

I’m not at all anti green. But you can’t have your cake and eat it.

 

[SDK^]

Ok, so how does this justify BP recording record profits whilst the consumer pays soaring energy prices? From your post, I'm led to believe you're content with the situation

I'm with Simon - Let's understand the profit before throwing toys out of the pram. Do we know which sectors of BP the profits were generated?

Last year Covid and lockdowns imposed record losses of $ 20.3 billion on the oil leviathian

https://theenergyst.com/bps-record-7-6-bn-profit-renews-calls-for-windfall-tax/#:~:text=Profits attributable from Rosneft, BP's,red ink of $ 0.15 billion.


So it's not all taking from consumers !

 

[RoboCod]

I just trying to provide a measured view. Yes energy prices are crazy but let’s make sure we understand why rather than point the finger.

Shell or Bp also aren’t privatised so they exist to make sustainable returns. And I don’t think you understand the energy market if you think all oil company profit is from gas. High prices are due to the market and they fact North Sea production has massively dropped as the focus has been on green and no new production has been brought on in years.

Highest in 8 years is not ‘record’ profits

Who is going to pay billions for the U.K. offshore wind turbine acreage ? It’s not a startup company.

I’m not at all anti green. But you can’t have your cake and eat it.

But don't you think it is unjust when they are reporting their highest profits (in 8 years), yet consumers shall suffer higher fuel bills? Once again, the poorest and the most vulnerable taking the brunt. Old people actually dying of hypothermia due to fuel poverty. It just seems quite absurd to me

 

[413x]

I just read that if you are a new customer (ie move out of your parents home) the day after the 200 credit you will still be charged the 40 pounds per year claw back even though you got nothing.

This policy is a joke.

 

[SDK^]

But don't you think it is unjust when they are reporting their highest profits (in 8 years), yet consumers shall suffer higher fuel bills? Once again, the poorest and the most vulnerable taking the brunt. Old people actually dying of hypothermia due to fuel poverty. It just seems quite absurd to me

There are many mentions of ‘we need to invest in better energy solutions and infrastructure’.
The money for this investment has to come from somewhere.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I just read that if you are a new customer (ie move out of your parents home) the day after the 200 credit you will still be charged the 40 pounds per year claw back even though you got nothing.

This policy is a joke.

That is correct. Every bill payer from 2023 to 2027 will be paying back an extra £40 regardless of whether they were a bill payer in 2022 or not.

Its logical that there will also be a growth in billpayers in that period so I guess that's who is paying the interest too.

 

[Simon]

But don't you think it is unjust when they are reporting their highest profits (in 8 years), yet consumers shall suffer higher fuel bills? Once again, the poorest and the most vulnerable taking the brunt. Old people actually dying of hypothermia due to fuel poverty. It just seems quite absurd to me

For what? selling gas at the market price and people paying less than market price?