England Euro 2012 post mortem thread.

Azza said:
For **** sake Danny shut up!!!! People might be onto the truth before the transfer window closes if you go saying things like that!! :p
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I know, every single Everton fan I talk to says the same in hushed voices, that we can furnish some of the debt with a player that the media are selling for us :D

I can't even think of many games when he has taken the game and made it his, yet he's some prodigy that's worth 20m. If only we had danny cadamarteri to sell now for £25 million ;)
 
Robbo said:
As someone (I think it was Drunkenmaster :eek:) pointed out before, Rooney has lost the 'danger' that he once had.
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I reckon they are sedating him at anger management, much like they did Mike Tyson ;)

Seriously watch the Turkey game again for his first full match for England and try to compare the two. Every one wanted to feed him the ball and he put the fear into Turkey.

Against the Ukraine he would have left that defender for dead when he was through on goal, instead they just overtook him and he stopped his run.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Rooney would frighten me less now than when he was 18/19. His finishing, pace, passing have certainly got worse not better. His temperament is the only thing that's got better.
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lol that Rooney's finishing is worse now than when he was at Everton :o

Edit: Actually Danny you've actually gone batcrap crazy with your opinion on Rooney now
 
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The Running Man said:
And for england he's never come close to have a decent game in a tournament.
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I'm not a massive Rooney fan but the above is utter tripe. Euros in Portugal he frightened the life out of the times till he bust his foot.

And the other tournament when ronnie got him sent off he was doing pretty well then as well :)
 
divaboy said:
I'm not a massive Rooney fan but the above is utter tripe. Euros in Portugal he frightened the life out of the times till he bust his foot.

And the other tournament when ronnie got him sent off he was doing pretty well then as well :)
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then he became a dad ....
 
Tummy said:
You mean he got himself sent off by making a really bad tackle :confused:
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Although I like football and I used to/ like reading footie threads seriously starting to think why bother posting.

Original post was Rooney has NEVER had a good tournie for England I simply replied he had until he bust his foot and in ANOTHER tournie ( you still with me tummy) he played well until he got sent off/nasty tackle in another :rolleyes:

Think I'll stick to lurking from now on in here purely for the intelligent and informative posters in here :o

Oh I'll quickly add I don't particularly like or rate rooney as said in my previous post but to say he has never had a good tournie is just plain daft.
 
The problem with the England team is a very simple one (well complex). We are not good enough - Fact. Now we can get onto the why we are not good enough. For years we have had it rammed down our throat that the Premier League is the best league in the world yah yah yah. It's the best league in the world if your foreign and you want a nice pension fund that's for sure. It's well up their with Spain in that respect.

The knock on effect is that the best English talent are not getting the regular game time to perform, make mistakes and develop their game. James Milner and Adam Johnson being prime examples. Give me a team that would not cry out for a player like Johnson who had pace, could dribble, pass and shoot. He's got it all but his career and development are standing still. The pressure is on to win at all cost's. To get in that next league position, to stay in the Prem or the holiest of holy grails, finishing fourth because that guarantee's MORE MONEY to bring in talent from Africa or Asia etc etc. Performances are overshadowed for the success of 'The Project'

Then you look ask the question are we bringing enough players through the ranks at grass roots level ?? Are we spotting enough Wayne Rooney's, Gazza's, Stevie G's, Joe Cole's of this world. More importantly what are we doing with them when we do spot them. Were dropping them into Academy's where at the age of 7 bone density & are muscle mass are treated with the same or greater importance than a players ability to play with his head up. Athleticism is valued more than raw skill. Why ??? Because that's what the product of the Premier League demands, faster players able to withstand greater physical demands to perform at their peak for longer.

Opta stats are looked upon as the holy grail of good footballers. 'Look at how many yards Player X covered, didn't he work hard !!!!!!!!' Look at Pirlo last night it's not about working hard, its about working smart with and without the ball. No Opta stat will show that ever.

Because of the physical demands of the Premier League/Champions League and now the Mental demands of success the competitions carry, I firmly believe English players have a zero risk attitude because of their fear of failure. In essence, the flair, the skill and the unpredictability is coached out of them. Why go for risky ball X that might mean your own team could score but the opposition could break if you can play no risk ball Y. Michael Carrick, Scott Parker, Frank Lampard please stand up.

So where do we go from here. Well we need to produce more players, a lot more players who are footballers first, with footballers brains, no more Athlete's like Theo Walcott or Ashley Young. The FA have made the bold decision to rip up the rule book. To go 5's 7's 9's and 11's a side instead of the traditional 7s and 11s. Why is this good ?? Because it gives the kids more touches of the ball in a space that is appropriate for their age and their size. It gives them more time to think on the ball and the space to try something more risky. More importantly it will help nurture more talent.

I look after my boys team and we were looking to go from 7's to 11's. Having seen the teams from last year make the transition to an Adult pitch with Adult size nets at the age of 10, it's certainly not pretty. Fitter they are, Faster they are, better footballers they are not. So having the chance to take a small step up to 9 a side, the kids are embracing it.

The road ahead for Englands development will be a long one and success is not guaranteed. We are miles behind developing youth here to where it is on the continent.
 
cheets64 said:
Well he is our best player and "world class" he did nothing in 2 games fit or unfit.

Inb4 Hodgson told him how to play.
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Good players can't influence the game without the ball, it doesn't matter whether you're Messi, Ronaldo, whoever. All attackers have had their fair share of shockers when their side doesn't have enough of the ball. Sadly for England and Rooney this is every game. Even against second rate sides we don't dominate possession.
 
I'm actually lost for words at the stupidity of some people (the usual suspects so why am I not surprised) who genuinely feel players (even those still as young as Rooney) should play the exact same way as they did when they were 16/17.

Do I really need to spell it out why Rooney played the way he did back in 2004 and why he plays the way he does now?

Back in 2004 Rooney was still a teenager, still learning the game, still a relative unknown in Europe and thus with it all the prove to the world, do people really think Rooney had no evolving/maturing to do as a player back then? Do people really think that almost 10 years on he should still be running around like a headless chicken using pure brute force to simple barge his way through defences?

I always remember a game between us and Milan the season Rooney signed and in that game the likes of Cafu, Nesta and Maldini found it a piece of **** to deal with this young naive boy, 2 years later though against the same defence in the same tie Rooney went and scored 2 goals and generally gave Nesta and Maldini the run around. Anyone who says Rooney isn't a better player today than he was back in 2004 quite simply has no grasp of realty.
 
divaboy said:
Although I like football and I used to/ like reading footie threads seriously starting to think why bother posting.

Original post was Rooney has NEVER had a good tournie for England I simply replied he had until he bust his foot and in ANOTHER tournie ( you still with me tummy) he played well until he got sent off/nasty tackle in another :rolleyes:

Think I'll stick to lurking from now on in here purely for the intelligent and informative posters in here :o

Oh I'll quickly add I don't particularly like or rate rooney as said in my previous post but to say he has never had a good tournie is just plain daft.
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Errr ok?

You said Ronaldo was the reason Rooney was sent off, Rooney was the reason Rooney got sent off with a very silly tackle :confused: as to why you'd take issue with this.

Rooney has played well for England previously, his break through tournament is a perfect example.
 
Robbo said:
As someone (I think it was Drunkenmaster :eek:) pointed out before, Rooney has lost the 'danger' that he once had.

He's still a very fine player, but a few years ago he could just 'do' amazing things, he still does now and again, but he's a much calmer person now and that hasn't made him better in my opinion.

It's also not helped by the fact that he plays as some kind of striker-come-midfielder, mainly due to the Man Utd midfield being sub-par against top sides.
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I agree with that, he has dramatically improved his in the box finishing and heading but I feel he has lost everything else. What I use to enjoy watching was Rooney running at players like a bull, powering through and leathers the ball but now he tries delicate chips, curling it in. For some reason he also thinks he has Scholes range of passes so will always try and ping the ball 30 yards. Think Rooney just needs to be played as the main striker and just concentrate on scoring and nothing else.
 
Another thing to mention about not just Rooney but England back in 2004 was just look at the team England played against France;

---------------James---------------
G.Neville--King--Campbell--Cole
Beckham--Lampard--Gerrard--Scholes
-------Rooney-------Owen-------

No one is going to tell me that team at that time wasn't light years ahead in quality over the team England lined up with last night;

---------------Hart---------------
Johnson--Terry--Lescott--Cole
Milner--Parker--Gerrard--Young
-------------Rooney
---------------Welbeck
 
Forget having him on the left wing just having a midfield including him and a not even in their prime yet Lampard and Gerrard not to mention Beckham on the right just goes to show the real chasm in quality England have fallen upon since then, to go from that to the likes of Parker and Barry :o
 
There were as many problems with that England Midfield in 2004 as the one last night. As usual the England defense was about as solid. The difference was in the quality of the forward pairing.

On paper that 2004 team looks vastly better, if you don't consider all the issues with form, formation and fitness at the time.
 
Tom84 said:
Another thing to mention about not just Rooney but England back in 2004 was just look at the team England played against France;

---------------James---------------
G.Neville--King--Campbell--Cole
Beckham--Lampard--Gerrard--Scholes
-------Rooney-------Owen-------
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that's a far better team, no doubt but all this does is amplify the ''psychological'' problems england have had for over 20 yrs as we still bottled it.
 
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