England V India ***Clash of the Heavyweights*** Test, T20 and ODI Series

Only needed 4 didn't he? Such a shame.

Deiwos said:
Prior was ranked 3rd all time for batting as a wicket keeper behind Flowers and Gilchrist, Sangakara was 5th if I recall correctly. I'm not taking anything away from Sangakara but I think Prior keeps wicket better than him, certainly in the last 12 months anyway.
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How is that worked out? Sangakarra's batting stats are miles better than Prior's. Slower strike rate, but better average, more centuries, higher top score, heck, he even hits the boundary more often.

Like I said, the fact that Sanga isn't SL's wicketkeeper since he took the captaincy (even though he's not any more) probably makes it a bit of a funny choice as to whether he could still be considered a wicketkeeper batsman (ie. "Tendulkar once kept wicket in a charity match, therefore he's the best wicketkeeper batsman!!"), but hey, he's my choice. :p
 
Weebull said:
How is that worked out? Sangakarra's batting stats are miles better than Prior's. Slower strike rate, but better average, more centuries, higher top score, heck, he even hits the boundary more often.
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I'm not sure of the figures, but I thought Sangakarra's batting stats aren't so impressive if you take into account the times he was keeping wicket? His average as a "pure batter" is much better if I remember correctly.
 
Dave said:
I'm not sure of the figures, but I thought Sangakarra's batting stats aren't so impressive if you take into account the times he was keeping wicket? His average as a "pure batter" is much better if I remember correctly.
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I guess that makes sense, but isn't that likely to just be pure chance? I mean I can't see why having to be wicketkeeper when fielding would really affect your batting. It's not like the captaincy, where you supposedly have things to think about. Keeping just involves standing in one spot with the gloves. :p

*goes off to cricinfo to check*
 
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Comparing inter country batting averages is fairly pointless. Batters from the sub-continent are generally going to have higher averages than English batters because they play in favourable batting conditions more than half the time.

You could probably add 4 to the averages of England batters and it would be a fairer comparison.
 
Weebull said:
I guess that makes sense, but isn't that likely to just be pure chance? I mean I can't see why having to be wicketkeeper when fielding would really affect your batting. It's not like the captaincy, where you supposedly have things to think about. Keeping just involves standing in one spot with the gloves. :p

*goes off to cricinfo to check*
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I had this arguement the other day with a friend.

If you don't think keeping wicket does make a difference to a keeper's batting average, just look at Sangakkara as an example - his average is far worse. Another well known example is Alec Stewart. Also, breaking down Sanga's record against top teams, it really doesn't stack up compared to Prior's - who's average only really suffers against South Africa. I don't see how anyone can come to a conclusion that Sangakkara is better to be honest, the stats just don't back it up in terms of batting, and I'd say Prior's glovework is superior.

As for strike rates - the only batsmen that have a higher SR in tests than Matt Prior over the last 10 years are Afridi, Gilchrist, Sehwag, Jayasuriya and Dilshan (Qual - 1000 runs) - See Here

With regards to just how good Bell has been, check out the batting records of the past 2 years Here

I'd have him in my side ahead of all but Kallis and probably Dravid/Tendulkar right now.
 
^^ Wow! Look at Sehwag's SR! With a 66.7 average as well, and often an opening batsman! That is just amazing.

But back OT, yeah, I am a huge fan of Bell and would always have him the team. What surprised me is that he's a way ahead of Trott in that list, and I thought Trott had actually probably outscored him over the last two years.

Also reinforces what a supreme cricketer Kallis is, of course!
 
Weebull said:
I guess that makes sense, but isn't that likely to just be pure chance? I mean I can't see why having to be wicketkeeper when fielding would really affect your batting. It's not like the captaincy, where you supposedly have things to think about. Keeping just involves standing in one spot with the gloves. :p
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I suppose, but it can't just be a statistical anomaly given how many games he has played (both as wicketkeeper and not). Perhaps something about the glovework affects him mentally, having to concentrate harder over longer periods of time? No idea.

The subcontinent thing has been mentioned - it's interesting to look at the stats of the subcontinent players out of the subcontinent and compare them to "home".
 
Was talking over this with a friend and we really can't see how India are going to get back in this test series.

Harbhajan has to go, probably for Misha. Sehwag for Mukund and Gambhir back in too.

Can't see what else India can do? :confused: Apart from lose that is!

No, no, must keep faith. :D
 
There's Zaheer to come back too. Him and Sehwag will make it a tougher test, I'm sure.

Thing is, even with a much tougher test, we're just talking about making it interesting as opposed to a walkover :D

Seriously, it's possible this could make a big difference, and perhaps could have made a difference even in the second test. Although England showed great toughness and in the end blew India away, with Sehwag providing the possibility of pulling away from England's low first innings score with his usual alacrity, and Zaheer probing and testing in the second innings we wouldn't have had things so much our own way for days three and four, I reckon.
 
strumpusplunket said:
There's Zaheer to come back too.
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His fitness is a complete joke. I said after the warmup game he looked over weight and struggling.

People expecting him to slot back in and be some sort of magical saviour could be in for a nasty shock.

He and the selectors/BCCI should be ashamed of his preparation and fitness levels.
 
^^ Well, that's news to me as I didn't keep up with the warm-up games this time around, and it certainly alleviates one major doubt about England's superiority in this series.

So, yeah, Sehawag is a huge player to have back, but he's not going to save India on his own given the gulf in the teams there appears to be at present.
 
strumpusplunket said:
^^ Well, that's news to me as I didn't keep up with the warm-up games this time around, and it certainly alleviates one major doubt about England's superiority in this series.
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The warm-up game* you mean (singular form). I think that one warm-up game, on a Taunton pitch, was complete under-preparation on the part of India. They could have at least asked for a seaming pitch to see what they were going to be playing on, instead of the friendly Taunton pitch! (although I seem to remember they made a bit of a hash of the Taunton pitch in the first innings of the warm-up game)
 
Vote to change the name of the thread to "Clash of the Heavyweight vs Middleweight":D

Seriously though, even with Sehwag back and maybe some other changes i can't really see India turning it around. Especially if, as i saw Bumble saying yesterday, Edgebaston will be a very similar wicket.

Here is an interesting article

Can India Get A Fit Playing Eleven By Edgebaston Test?

Zaheer Khan had begun to get into the thick of things by bowling in the nets but if the experts are to be believed, he should not be risked in the third Test unless he can prove his match fitness in the tour game against Northampton. Even that would only give us a very slight peek at how he feels but one thing is for sure – if he fails to last the warm-up game or if he does not feature in that practice game, the Indians would be foolhardy to try him for the third Test.
Harbhajan Singh is the other bowler, who broke down in the middle of the game. But Harbhajan’s issue is not restricted to his fitness alone. His form has been on the wane for far too long and while it did not show up when India was winning, it has now begun to emerge as one of the reasons behind the Indian losses.
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The good news for the Indians, though, is that Gautam Gambhir should be fit by the next game. To top it, Virender Sehwag, one of the most destructive opening batsmen in the world cricket, could also get to England by tomorrow, though, his fitness is still a matter of concern. The best scenario for India would be for both, Sehwag and Gambhir to walk out at the top, replacing Abhinav Mukund and Yuavraj Singh in the side.
If Sehwag, however, fails to regain fitness by the time of the third Test match, it will be an interesting choice to be made for the management – who does Gambhir replace in the side. Mukund is the frontline opener but has barely looked a part. Yuvraj does not open the innings, but did well in the first innings with a half century and is much more experienced.
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Well England were missing one of their best bowlers and one of their best batsmen too last Test (Tremlett and Trott) it just happens our back-up bowlers are bloody ace and our other batsmen are pretty decent too :p

Interestingly though if Trott doesn't play in the next Test it does leave a bit of a hole, our top six batting order has been settled for so long I haven't really heard about any other options other than Bopara who is fail and going to 5 bowlers. That said maybe Bopara at 6 or whatever wouldn't be the end of the world now that Bell has found a bit of toughness which eluded him for so long.

i.e. Strauss, Cook, Bell, Pietersen, Morgan, Bopara, Prior, Swann, Tremlett, Broad, Anderson isn't the worst team you could put out.
 
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Dave said:
The warm-up game* you mean (singular form). I think that one warm-up game, on a Taunton pitch, was complete under-preparation on the part of India. They could have at least asked for a seaming pitch to see what they were going to be playing on, instead of the friendly Taunton pitch! (although I seem to remember they made a bit of a hash of the Taunton pitch in the first innings of the warm-up game)
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They could have played 4 warm up games and Kahn wouldn't of been fit.. he's shockingly under prepared.
Looks like he's done no fitness work at all since after the WC
 
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