Englands World Cup Failure

OldCoals said:
Absolutely not, the fact that he was even there was questionable.
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Thats pretty much what prompted the question on my part, Ferdinand - the captain - was injured yet goes home, Becks was unfit before the team went out there yet still went.

Sent the wrong signals imo....

I can't see why else Beckham was there.....
 
FoxEye said:
Anything less than winning the thing would have been seen as "failure" by the media, and therein lies a large problem in itself. We are an average team, winning it shouldn't be the priority.

The priority should be to play out of our skins, unburdened by expectation. And to play with confidence, style and good technical ability.
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I disagree that we have an average team, player for player we arguably have a better team than Germany. This is not just a subjective opinion - most of our players have had a more successful club career - including consistently performing well in European competition.

What was a "failure" was failing to play well at any point in this tournament.

I blame both capello and the players. I partially feel a bit sorry for Capello, as I think he has been let down by the players. He cant have coached them to make such basic defensive errors.
That being said we cant really sack the players, so capello needs to go. the dynamic between players and manager clearly has not worked so we need to try something different.
 
digipeep said:
Overrated players that play in teams mainly with foreign players and those players make the likes of Rooney, Lampard, Terry look good when in fact they are distinctly average

or

Fantastic players who just couldn't give a **** about the world cup and rather play club football.

Take your pick.
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Problem is Rooney has looked very good in a (relatively) poor United side this year, and Gerrard has always looked better than his surroundings at Liverpool. Whether they're played out of position or what-not, they've not translated form.
 
Shamikebab said:
People that were watching the game know. Germany were better than us in every single position of the pitch.
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Agree!! In the beginning of 2nd half, England did put pressure on Germany and they created few chances. It did seem at this point that England would score more goals. But during the events leading up to germany third goal and thereafter, England just fell apart completely and then didn't exert the same pressure on germany.

I would suggest cutting players salaries and forcing them to play on the desert barefoot under full sun like how it is done in brazil where people play on hot sandy beaches barefoot. It may bring out better skills level from the players
 
StewartMG said:
Agree with DM that we needed a natural DMF, and I really rate Parker, sort of player that gets no credit in the Prem but is a really really good player, and would (I imagine) relish the chance of playing for England. Barry just isn't a DMF and isn't good enough when he plays there.
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agreed, parker has been great this year for west ham.

barry is not a defensive midfielder, he doesnt play that way in club football. the only reason he has be liked in that role for england is that he is mildly more humble than gerrard and lampard.

that being said, to cope with germany we actually need a different formation. You cant just stick a more defensive midfielder and hope things would work out better, because they wont. we were over-ran in midfield, you would need to drop a striker, play more conservatively and have someone like parker sitting deep ( he wouldnt have the pace to track someone like ozil in a 442)
 
WingZero30 said:
Agree!! In the beginning of 2nd half, England did put pressure on Germany and they created few chances. It did seem at this point that England would score more goals. But during the events leading up to germany third goal and thereafter, England just fell apart completely and then didn't exert the same pressure on germany.

I would suggest cutting players salaries and forcing them to play on the desert barefoot under full sun like how it is done in brazil where people play on hot sandy beaches barefoot. It may bring out better skills level from the players
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except they dont. Football is a major export industry for brazil, most of their team will have been picked up by well funded academies at a young age.
 
Shamikebab said:
"Capello said. "But I say again, I am sure that a big mistake from the referee stopped us from going forward.""

sack the idiot :rolleyes:
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There's no denying that Germany out played us over the 90 minutes but that was a crucial decision. We just got back into the match and had we got in 2-2 at HT, the game's wide open again. For all Germany's better play, we lost the game due to over committing, chasing the equaliser.

Saying that though, there's no defence for the stupidity of our defenders for their 3rd goal. It's 1 thing pushing on looking for the 2nd goal but leaving 1 man back from a free-kick where Lampard was clearly shooting was suicide.
 
drunkenmaster said:
You can say it, but you're wrong, its really that simple, Rooney was bored upfront without getting a single decent pass. Only so many times you run along the back four and peel off hoping for a ball in behind, only to see the ball go long to Heskey and straight back to the opposition.... before you stop making the runs.

We didn't track back because, Barry DOES NOT TRACK BACK, its nto his game, never has been his game and cost us for years, and cost City and Villa aswell. Johnson also does not track back, again its not in his game, he's constantly caught out of position, its bad players, not lack of fitness. Ashley Cole rarely got forward in the first two games, seemingly being told to stay back, and with a big Gerrard shaped hole in front of Cole, we looked crap on the left. Capello, at the urging of everyone in the world asked the fullbacks to get back more, largely to support Gerrard refusing to stay out wide. Unfortunately Cole going forwards, with little support from Gerrard high up the field meant he was constantly caught forwards, while Chelsea and previously ARsenals central midfield would hold up players letting Cole get back in time, a midfield without any defensive sense at all got us caught by fast counter attacks time and time again with Cole way out of position.

Bad management, poor choice of players, lack of working system, no one covered for anyone at all throughout, smeg all to do with fitness, everything to do with a awful team that can't play well together and a few of the players who simply aren't close to good enough.
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While these are all valid reasons why it fell apart on the pitch - I don't believe these are the reasons that cost us the game - to borrow a term from eve online - it was bad "FCing". IMO Capello kept the players in the dark too much and then expected them to take onboard too much information at the last minute.
 
BaZ87 said:
There's no denying that Germany out played us over the 90 minutes but that was a crucial decision. We just got back into the match and had we got in 2-2 at HT, the game's wide open again. For all Germany's better play, we lost the game due to over committing, chasing the equaliser.

Saying that though, there's no defence for the stupidity of our defenders for their 3rd goal. It's 1 thing pushing on looking for the 2nd goal but leaving 1 man back from a free-kick where Lampard was clearly shooting was suicide.
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Agree 100% . Refreshing to hear from someone that actually knows something about football. ;)
 
drunkenmaster said:
You can say it, but you're wrong, its really that simple, Rooney was bored upfront without getting a single decent pass. Only so many times you run along the back four and peel off hoping for a ball in behind, only to see the ball go long to Heskey and straight back to the opposition.... before you stop making the runs..
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Exactly, I've never seen such poor service. I agree with all the points you have made.

Gerrard in particular to me was all over the place, so undiciplined. So where others but he was supposed to be the captain.

I don't get why we didn't just play barry on the left. He was a decent enough LB and I remember him crossing well on the left for england when he was younger. Much better than a make shift that gerrard had to suffer.

I also don't think it helps the amount of games our players play at the top level, because of it our top players get pressure from club bosses to throw a sickie when friendlies come along.

You cannot build a team or formation when you don't play enough together.
 
The players looked old, tired and didn't look happy to be there.
Even with the worst tactics great players play great. England did not play great, even though it was mostly the same team from the qualifiers.

I don't blame capello at all, players were dire.
 
When Cappello was appointed manager he adamantly stated that he would pick players on form and that reputation meant nothing. Well that was a load of ***** wasn't it?
I would not of started Rooney today. Nor would I of started Lampard. I would play wingers who can actually play on the wing and who have pace.
And where is Crouch? He is a goal scorer yet he didn't get on at all!

I also think that the FA should drop the lesser domestic cup competition and just have the FA cup. Too many games in the season makes our players look knackered come
the Summer.
 
BaZ87 said:
There's no denying that Germany out played us over the 90 minutes but that was a crucial decision. We just got back into the match and had we got in 2-2 at HT, the game's wide open again. For all Germany's better play, we lost the game due to over committing, chasing the equaliser.
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On paper yes but realistically we were massively out played by Germany, Upson's goal came out of nowhere and we had hardly strung 2 passes together in the final third before Lampard's "goal" I can't see how the game would have been wide open, Germany had showed how easily they could cut us open and were dominating the midfield.
 
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