English League Football [6th - 10th Feb 2010] **spoilers**
- Thread starter red11
- Start date
Yes includes both games as far i could see or understand.
These games don't really define our season though as seems to be the knee-jerk reaction. Its nice to win them, but at the moment thats tough.
We've taken four points from Villa and beaten Liverpool and Spurs this season which kind of puts us in a group of one behind the top two if you are looking at it that way.
Geezus just watching SSN and in the last 9 games Arsenal have won none...drawn one and lost eight games...scored 5 goals but conceded over 20 goals.
That cant be correct
away to Chelsea lost 2-0
home to us lost 3-1
home to Chelsea lost 3-0
away to us lost 2-1
home to Chelsea lost 4-1
away to us drew 0-0
home to us (UCL) lost 3-1
away to us (UCL) lost 1-0
I dont know which is next but surely it's either the game where you beat Chelsea 2-1 with Van Persie getting both or the game where you beat us 2-1 with Nasri getting both?
The stat should have been the last 8 games
Last edited:
Well i happen to think that these games are what makes or breaks our season ie title challenge which is more or less over now with the 2 defeats against Man Utd and Chelski...if we had managed to get a draw out of both of them then it wouldnt be such a problem...but we are now 9 pts behind and we need to definitely win Wed against Liverspuds...which i dont have much hope of...
As an Arsenal fan/supporter im not happy with being 3rd or 4th, i want my team to win trophies rather than fight for being 3rd or 4th best...the more points we drop the more likely we will end up fighting for 4th rather than 3rd place...we have Tottenham, Villa, Man City and Liverspuds that we will soon be fighting for 3rd and 4th.
I just hope we get back on track and put a few past Liverspuds to get our season back on track but the offensive and defensive problems need to be fixed and fixed asap....well hopefully come summer Wenger will ditch this stupid policy of keeping faith with the youngsters and get rid of some of the deadwood we have lurking about ie Walcott, Denilson and Bender boy...who i have absolutely no faith in whatsoever.
Im pretty sure that 9 game run also included our defeat to Stoke in the FA cup.
Oh so it's not the last 8/9 games just against United and Chelsea it's your last 8/9 games full stop?
I still cant believe it's true
I really disagree. Those are only 4 games from 38.
As the run we went on after losing to Chelsea 3-0 shows, you don't need to win these games to compete at the top. I think in all honesty, before the Villa game the expectation was too high anyway.
There is also nothing wrong with the attack unless you base it on the last two games, which people seem to be doing. We are what, joint top PL scorers?
Oh so it's not the last 8/9 games just against United and Chelsea it's your last 8/9 games full stop?
I still cant believe it's true
We beat Bolton twice and Villa, Pompey etc before the Stoke game so no, its not true.
Oh so it's not the last 8/9 games just against United and Chelsea it's your last 8/9 games full stop?
I still cant believe it's true
Well from what i understand yes...not against Chelski and Man Utd...think it was stats from the last 9 games we have played.
EDIT: Could be the last 9 games against Man Utd and Chelski then...wasnt really paying much attention...just saw it flash up and thought id comment on it.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Thats the problem, its not just 4 games, its the equivilent of 8 games for one thing.
People constantly call those relegation battle matches 6 pointers, why, because a team you're directly competing with are getting 3 points, while you give up 3 points.
As I said, simply drawing the CHelsea and UTD games gives us 4 points, but takes 4 points off both Utd and Chelsea, so we'd be level, instead we're 8-9 points behind.
If we won those games, we'd have a full 12 points more, and both Chelsea and Utd would have 6 points less. So had we won, we wouldn't be 3 points above Chelsea now, but 9 points or so ahead, of Utd aswell.
Games against your rivals aren't actually worth double points, but in effect they are.
IF we drew those games, just a draw we'd be level, if we won, we'd have a commanding lead against both CHelsea and Utd.
I had come in to comment largely on Theo, who is in the press yet again talking about "our" chances. I'm getting very fed up with the way Theo seems to talk about how well the team is doing, like he has any part of it. He's yet to have even the slightest positive effect on the team, is a ridiculously bad player and should have been shipped out long ago.
I don't expect him to just say Arsenal sucked, but we need to learn, no you do, "if we keep the ball like we did" he barely touched the ball, when he did he very rarely controlled it. I don't think theres anyone in the league who will receive a simple pass by the touch line and let his first touch take the ball out. It happens to everyone now and then, but it happens to him without fail several times a game. He did nothing, and if he can't even recognise how completely awful he was, then what is he going to learn.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Nope its 9, inbetween beating Chelsea 2-1 with a RVP brace, we lost 2-1 to Chelsea in the cup, then lost 3 and drew one in the space of 5 or so games at the end of the season, drew to Utd in the league, lost two CL games and Chelsea in the league.That cant be correct
away to Chelsea lost 2-0
home to us lost 3-1
home to Chelsea lost 3-0
away to us lost 2-1
home to Chelsea lost 4-1
away to us drew 0-0
home to us (UCL) lost 3-1
away to us (UCL) lost 1-0
I dont know which is next but surely it's either the game where you beat Chelsea 2-1 with Van Persie getting both or the game where you beat us 2-1 with Nasri getting both?
The stat should have been the last 8 games
Thats with a 20-5 goal conceded to scored, even if you add the other two games last year, which we won against Utd and Chelsea, both 2-1, that makes it 11 games, 22 conceded, 9 scored, 2 wins, 1 draw, 8 losses, that barely looks better. However we haven't managed to beat them since early last season.
We also drew both games with Spurs and Liverpool last year, drew one and lost one to Villa, lost one and won one with City, the loss was where Wenger thought he'd crucify Gallas, then promptly took back "dropping" him after the worst defensive performance I can remember in the last several years.
Our record against the top 6-7 in the past season and 2/3rds, has been completely horrific. Hell, we also only managed one draw and one loss against Fulham. Did we win both games against a single team in the top half, probably, just not anywhere near enough and far too many losses aswell. Hmm, it would seem that only Everton and West ham in the top half were teams we didn't lose to, which is pathetic, and even then we took 4 points off both, we didn't do the double on anyone in the top half and we lost to everyone in the top half except Pool, Spurs, West Ham and Everton, two of which aren't great and two of which we didn't even get a win so we took less points off Spurs and Pool than the other two anyway. You can't win the league like that, yet we scored the same amount of goals as UTd and Chelsea, its so stupidly clear its conceding thats the problem(shipped 9 goals against Spurs and Pool, scoring 9 also).
Anyway, sooo glad we threw the Fa cup away, which we had a good shot of winning, just to rest players so we could get spanked twice in this run so easily. Considering our record against the top 2 specifically, but the top 6 also, it was stupid to think we'd somehow magically with the same team do much better, to throw away the cup for I don't know how many years running, for a ridiculously unlikely league title was moronic.
So's playing into Chelsea hands AFTER they tell you how they are going to beat you.
Last edited:
I don't think the games between the top teams decide a season, Man Utd only won one or two last year iirc (feel free to get the real stat) and they won the title quite comfortably in the end. They help if you win them and instill confidence, but it's not the end of the world.
I think the recent talk is a bit knee jerk, especially talk of fighting for 4th, has everyone forgotten the first half of the season? Arsenal were much better than the pack racing for 4th and I expect them to return to that form in a few games time.
I think the recent talk is a bit knee jerk, especially talk of fighting for 4th, has everyone forgotten the first half of the season? Arsenal were much better than the pack racing for 4th and I expect them to return to that form in a few games time.
Yeah.
So far this season we've taken 4 points from Everton, 4 from Villa, 3 from 'Pool (played once away), 3 from Spurs (played once), 3 from Birmingham (played once), 3 from Fulham (played once away) with the loss away to City.
You really can't ask for more than that up to this point.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Everton had barely a fit player early season, and almost all their main stars completely smegged, Spurs, are spurs and haven't won at our place in years and years, Fulham likewise started off VERY badly and haven't been even close to last year's strength, Villa have turned into big girls, they are prefering to draw with the top 6 than risk losing, which unsurprisingly leads to negative tactics and a bigger chance of losing those games.
Its not about winning against the top 3-4, its about not losing. Its because you have the ability in a game against Utd to not only win 3 points, but prevent Utd winning 3 points also. As said, its very easy, 4 draws, 4 more points and UTd and Chelsea would have 4 less points, we'd be neck a neck.
Most importantly, look at Utd's results last year, they took 4 points off Chelsea, who finished what, 7 or so points behind Utd. One win the other way and it would have been very very close. Likewise Liverpool managed to get 2 wins against Utd, which got them above Chelsea and fairly close to Utd, if Utd had won those two games Liverpool would have been below Chelsea, never been close to the title and 12 whole points further away from Utd at the end of the season.
2 key victorys took a not fantastic Liverpool side to 86 points, only 4 behind Utd, had they lost those two games they'd have only had 80 points, and finished 16 points behind Utd. Can you see how huge a difference 2 games makes when its against direct rivals, two games, a 12 point swing.
Likewise, if Chelsea had managed to win both Utd games, They would have had 88 points, and won the title, Utd would have had 86 points, same as Pool and finished 3rd on Goal difference. 2 games with a different result would have dropped Utd 2 places and moved Chelsea up 2 places.
The single most important games of the season, are against your direct rivals.
If Utd had lost 2 other games, but beaten Liverpool twice, they'd still have finished on 90 points, but again Liverpool would have dropped back do 80 points, and 3rd place.
Losing to the top 2 consistantly means you will almost certainly not win the title. Draw, or win, doesn't matter, but you can't lose.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Actually think about it this way, assume we lost 4 games against that lot, but won the 4 against Chelsea and Utd, then tell me how the table would look. We'd have the same points, the 3-4 sides below us would be closer, but Utd would be on 50, and Chelsea 52, with us on 49 points. We'd be one win off the top, just by getting our wins against different sides.
The problem is, we weren't even in the Chelsea and Utd games. If we played the rest of the season the same, same points and were at least in both games with a huge chance or unlucky breaks causing us to lose, thats one thing. But we were demolished in those games, ok one of them we maybe could have won, without the own goal idiot on the pitch. But we weren't close, on another day we might of lost bigger, on yet another day we might of lost by a narrower margin, but in almost no circumstances would we have come out the victor in all 4 games. This isn't 6 years ago where we could easily have won those games and been top of the league now, we're very distinctly 3rd place and not competitive when playing the top 2, and thats the difference between fighting for 3rd/4th, and fighting for the title.
You can't have it both ways.
A little while ago you were saying that we didn't take enough points off of the other teams in the top half, then when its pointed out we have this season, you make excuses for those teams.
Whoever we have or haven't beaten this season, the facts are that at the moment, we have gained enough points to be in 3rd place. I know that yourself and many don't agree but for me thats about right in light of who we are competing with. Its pointless speculating what could have been as every team in the league could do the same.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Errm, again, you're incorrect, I didn't say we didn't take enough points off the top half teams(though we haven't) I said our position was a little over stated, because we had simply played an uneven number of top to bottom half teams at that stage, thats COMPLETELY different.
As for having something pointed out, we HAVEN'T taken enough points off the top half teams, so really have no clue what you're on about. We've given ourselves a 12 point drop over Utd and Chelsea by losing all 4 games, how is that taking enough off the top half teams? As for making excuses, we caught Everton in a very bad state, thrashed them, how did the return go? The difference between us smashing them and later in the season was clear for anyone to see. With a still very weakened team we managed a draw, hardly impressive.
How many teams from the top half did you list us getting 6 points against so far?
We STILL haven't taken enough points off the top half of the table, and I can tell that, because we're 9 points off the lead, if we'd taken enough points off those teams, we'd be level with Chelsea and Utd. If we'd taken points of Chelsea and Utd aswell we could be in the lead in a very strong position.
I'm also not sure what you think I don't agree with you on in regards to being 3rd and that being about right? I don't think with Wenger and his squad selection we deserve to be higher, and I don't think with our squad we deserve to be lower.
In fact I haven't really mentioned where i THINK we should be, I've merely been commenting on how important stopping the two team winning are because several people suggested it doesn't matter. Also people suggesting our problem is still goal scoring, when every conceivable piece of information suggests its our conceding thats the problem.
I don't think we can beat Utd/Chelsea with our current setup, I said that WAY before the games, before the season started, and all the way back to preseason.
When we trashed Everton by a billion goals and I was critical of the failures in the team, not because they cost us but because I said they would cost us in these exact games I was ridiculed and told to wait because we might well beat said teams. But the exact problems you can see against the worst teams in the league, have indeed costed us, dearly, against the best, and thats the difference between being in a 3rd/4th place scrap, and vying for the title and other cups.
The thing that irks me is, we have better players on the bench than who we start, we destroy the confidence of anyone in form, we play people out of position and buy the wrong players constantly. We have PLENTY of money and Wenger refuses to spend and I have never once insisted on spending BIG, we simply need DM's and keepers, we could have gotten Begovic for circa 3mil, hardly big, but Wenger wanted a "deal" so went for someone in the final minutes of the window, again, and missed out, again. We've let truly class players leave for insane reasons, while throwing money at the likes of Walcott who Wenger is blind to see is entirely hopeless. We'd have been better with Traore left wing and Nasri right wing, and Traore is woeful, and another player we've given millions in wages over so many years its been clear he'll never be prem league material.