Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

Exit poll: Who did you vote for?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 302 27.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 577 52.6%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 104 9.5%
  • Green

    Votes: 13 1.2%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 19 1.7%
  • Scottish National Party

    Votes: 30 2.7%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 6 0.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 4.2%

  • Total voters
    1,097
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May out.
Farage in.
Election.
Farage v Corbyn .
Result = ?

So sayeth Arazistrodamus.

I am just putting that one out there, expect anything in the next week, just an opinion, which Tory MP wants to put their name forward for leadership in this **** storm, likes of Johnson and co imo wont risk it, therefore an outsider.

I hope so, i have got a few quid on Farage being next leader of the Tory party or next PM haha, odss between 100\1 and 200\1 :)

Come on.

God I hope not but I can imagine tories being so hungry for power its a move they would take.
 
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pales in comparison with what Corbyn would do if you went by his past record. I am well aware of the Tories record with regard to cuts to the police. Who were to be fair far from the only public service to have large cuts and the Tories backed off from further cuts in 2015.

I think its highly dangerous to suggest that the recent terrorist attacks could have been prevented or mitigated if not for the cuts. Of course 20%+ cuts to police budgets have hampered the police ability to do their job generally but police were on scene very quickly in both recent London attacks and of course were on scene quickly after the detonation of the Manchester suicide bomb. It's not realistic to say either that the police/ security services could thwart such attacks of only it wasn't for tory cuts. Simply put no realistic sum of money would allow for such attacks to be stopped with any reliability.


there's also a world of difference between an anti UK prime minster who wouldn't stand a chance of passing vetting for any sensitive police role let alone a job in the security services with a marxist chancellor in tow and the Tories having to rely on 10 northern Irish Mp's with the baggage that comes with that.

I'm not here to say that the Tories with or without May and with or without the DUP are a good choice I'm here to say that sometimes we have to choose the least worse realistic option which I suggest ruled out Labour with corbyn at the helm....

Where did I reference the terror attacks?
 
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The Tories have got some ******* front, blaming advisors now, and one has just resigned (Nick Timothy).

Tories = nothing top do with us, it was the advisors fault, utter ********. It is bordering on "please feel sorry for us".

I hope people are seeing through this crap.

Sacrificial goats have always been part of politics. Openly having the ruler's ear brings power but also risk - if it's ever you or them, it's you.

Blaming advisors for their own actions makes a ruler look weak, but it deflects blame.

e: I wonder how many Tories will welcome the DUP with open arms, just to stay in power, shameless bunch of *******.

All of them who want a political career, probably. I doubt if more than a handful will mean it, but politicians must be able to lie convincingly.
 
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Their stance is hard negotiation avoiding staying in the single market to avoid free movement of people.

No stance on brexit is going to be fully apparent at this point, but the values and approach for the Conservatives is pretty obvious.

It's not though....the torys u turn at given opportunity if it protects or defends their reign.

Wish washy springs to mind...
 
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So, I’ve seen some people suggest that if the potential Conservative/DUP coalition falls apart, Labour will be in a good place to ‘win’ a new election. Sure, they’ll probably gain a few more seats, but if you consider winning to be an outright majority, I don’t think this is likely without change. Before I go any further, I think it’s important to recognise what Corbyn did right. This is well publicised but it’s clear he is a good campaigner and has mobilised a younger vote that weren’t previously engaged in the political process. His campaigning has certainly changed opinions within the Labour membership, the Parliamentary Labour Party and Labour’s voting base, becoming more supportive of his leadership.

Corbyn is showing that he’s bringing a bit more cohesion to the Labour party, but I don’t think that’s enough. Labour won 262 seats which while a good improvement, is far from what is required for a majority and this needs to be recognised. Put simply, galvanising the traditional Labour voting base isn’t enough to win an outright majority for two main reasons:

The topic of Brexit doesn’t fall down party lines. Europe is an issue that has proved difficult for both the Conservative and the Labour parties to deal with as there are inter party divisions. I suspect much of the reason that voters have moved away from smaller parties to a two-party system again is due to the difference in opinion over how the Brexit issue is being handled. This is probably one of the biggest political challenges in the best part of a century. Labour’s approach on Brexit is far from clear, they want to avoid hard Brexit, but the values and principles that any negotiations may take hasn’t been communicated in any detail to the electorate. This is simply too big an issue not to have strong leadership on. Whilst I am strongly opposed to the Conservative stance on Brexit, I do recognise that their offer is pretty clear to everyone.

The other polarising issue is around Labour’s economic policy. It’s clear that for much of Labour’s core case, this is a very popular manifesto. The idea of nationalising certain industries, taxing higher earners, a national investment bank, coupled with student loan abolishment is music to many voters. The problem is, it’s very left of centre and while that will solidify part of the electorate, it alienates much of the centre. For the UK to really have a strong majority it needs to be broadly popular with casual (or swing) conservative voters too, and the economic policy simply doesn’t seem fiscally responsible enough for these voters to vote labour. This needs to be toned down to not seem like a risky move for Conservative voters who don’t like certain Conservative positions, but feel that Labour is too much of a risk for the country at such a critical time. Simply by taking a more measured approach, support will come from a broader composition of the electorate. That's not to say that Labour shouldn't be anti-austerity, just that the public need confidence that the policies have been costed and how they are going to be fiscally responsible.

Finally, and a bit tangentially, we’re only in the position of wanting majorities due to FPTP and a more to PR would significantly change the rules of UK politics. I don’t see this happening any times soon and even if a referendum on PR happened (and the actual system was agreed) I don’t have much confidence the public would vote for it.

I would choose Labour's negotiating team over May's team any day. I think Labour/Corbyn is aiming to negotiate Brexit on the basis for single market access if that is the only way to guarantee the protection of jobs and industry. I know it hasn't been explicitly clear, but I can't imagine they would opt to not even consider it. I think they would definitely make this more clear if they were another GE. Conservatives/May has opted for the 'no deal' approach, which in my view is already resigning to defeat in getting a deal in the negotiations, and essentially the easy way out, because May and her team think it is beneath them to give into any demands by Europe even if those demands are appropriately justifled.
 
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I would choose Labour's negotiating team over May's team any day. I think Labour/Corbyn is aiming to negotiate Brexit on the basis for single market access if that is the only way to guarantee the protection of jobs and industry. I know it hasn't been explicitly clear, but I can't imagine they would opt to not even consider it.

He's been even less clear than May tbh.. and he got away with it because May pulled a load of other silly stuff out of a hat and diverted press attention away form Brexit. Corbyn has also made pledges re: immigration that would remove the possibility of single market access - you don't really have an alternative in that respect between Labour and the Conservatives.
 
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How would Farage have faired as our brexit negotiator? He was clearly very clued up on the subject but every time I witnessed him in Brussels he was getting laughed at, seemed to brush it off easily though and could counter very well.
 
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He's been even less clear than May tbh.. and he got away with it because May pulled a load of other silly stuff out of a hat and diverted press attention away form Brexit. Corbyn has also made pledges re: immigration that would remove the possibility of single market access - you don't really have an alternative in that respect between Labour and the Conservatives.

Maybe because the negotiations haven't started yet...
 
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How would Farage have faired as our brexit negotiator? He was clearly very clued up on the subject but every time I witnessed him in Brussels he was getting laughed at, seemed to brush it off easily though and could counter very well.

People give concessions to people they like. Farage is almost universally hated in Europe so there is very little good will to get a 'good deal', whatever that means.
 
Soldato
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May out.
Farage in.
Election.
Farage v Corbyn .
Result = ?

So sayeth Arazistrodamus.

I am just putting that one out there, expect anything in the next week, just an opinion, which Tory MP wants to put their name forward for leadership in this **** storm, likes of Johnson and co imo wont risk it, therefore an outsider.

I hope so, i have got a few quid on Farage being next leader of the Tory party or next PM haha, odss between 100\1 and 200\1 :)

Come on.

I think Farage is regarded as toxic by most Tory MPs, remember they would not let him into their Brexit group for the Ref. I have more chance of being the leader of the Tory Party than Farage.
 
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This post is nonsense.

It isn't. I put down as a Conservative voter in the original poll. However, I am in a Safe Conservative seat (though as it turned out a lot closer than expected!) and found it very hard to actually vote for May's increasing authoritarianism and puritanism. At the last minute, I voted for Labour as a protest. I believed it would not prevent a Conservative government overall but I did not want them to run away with a big mandate that they would abuse to pass laws unchallenged (again, I was thinking of the surveillance laws and possible further Middle East adventurism).

As it turned out, we went far beyond merely reigning in the Conservatives and came damn close to choking them. But anyway, I hope that shows that the post was not nonsense. There are indeed people who are broadly Conservative but voted against it temporarily.
 
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What do you mean? Do you expect him to ditch his previous pledges? And if you're going down that line then you might as well make up anything for any party.

Brexit negotiations are not that black and white....you can go in with clear wants and end up having to compromise


That's what negotiations are all about.

That's the mechanics of the process.
 
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An Election this year would see the full weight of the labour party swing behind Corbyn, something he did not get from this election because they were expecting him to lose badly, and too many did not what to come across as being associated with him...

Don't underestimate the effect of the Tory party largely leaving Corbyn to run unopposed - sure there was some sniping at him but nothing like he'd have to face if they'd run a proper campaign and/or if the Lib Dems had actually got their act together.
 
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I would choose Labour's negotiating team over May's team any day. I think Labour/Corbyn is aiming to negotiate Brexit on the basis for single market access if that is the only way to guarantee the protection of jobs and industry. I know it hasn't been explicitly clear, but I can't imagine they would opt to not even consider it. I think they would definitely make this more clear if they were another GE. Conservatives/May has opted for the 'no deal' approach, which in my view is already resigning to defeat in getting a deal in the negotiations, and essentially the easy way out, because May and her team think it is beneath them to give into any demands by Europe even if those demands are appropriately justifled.

This kinda highlights my point. Regardless of who I believe is preferential, what I'm trying to get across is how clear the menu is at the moment, even if what we want to order changed when we get to the point of decision making.
 
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OK you don't like using the hard and soft let's not.

Do you believe all 52% of those voting for brexit support defaulting to WTO with its 100 billion short term costs?

If not then I'd argue, that we agree that the majority are seeking a deal with the EU.
a position I describe as soft Brexit

(not unfair to assume as at least 48% wanted to continue the deal we already had).

I agree with that your saying but the use of hard and soft brexit is meaningless puff trotted out by lazy journalists and politicians who don't want to actually want to answer a question.
 

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Deleted member 66701

Don't underestimate the effect of the Tory party largely leaving Corbyn to run unopposed - sure there was some sniping at him but nothing like he'd have to face if they'd run a proper campaign and/or if the Lib Dems had actually got their act together.

What? Were you watching a different GE?
 
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