Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[stewski]

Labour have said they want both single market access and want to control immigration. What takes priority and what both of those mean exactly is not clear.

I guess Labour have the advantage of not having accused the people we wish to negotiate with of sabotage in the pointless election they just called.

 

[Mr Jack]

May is a dead duck walking. I really can't see her lasting this. Hard to see how the Brexit negotiations can be managed with such a weak leader.

Her two advisors have taken one for the team which might buy her time but ultimately refusing to take responsibility for your own failings is not a good look. The picture emerging of his the May camp has been run is also pretty damning.

 

[stewski]

No they haven't said that if you read carefully they're not pledging single market access... I don't know why people are under the false impression that they are. You can't control immigration and have access to the single market - the EU is absolutely clear on this.

Again is this the case (effectively) for Norway?

 

[Arazi]

Owen Jones being a complete **** on BBC news right now, he is embarrassing.

 

[Rroff]

May is a dead duck walking. I really can't see her lasting this. Hard to see how the Brexit negotiations can be managed with such a weak leader.

Her two advisors have taken one for the team which might buy her time but ultimately refusing to take responsibility for your own failings is not a good look. The picture emerging of his the May camp has been run is also pretty damning.

If it wasn't for the somewhat poisoned chalice she'd have been long gone IMO but I don't think that will hold the wolves off her forever.

 

[Danthus]

The 1992 committee meet on Tuesday, May would be stupid to do a deal with the DUP before then, they will oust her if she does.

 

[dalehitchy1]

This writer has a way with words for political pieces:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ility-shouldnt-gloat-mark-steel-a7781426.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ility-shouldnt-gloat-mark-steel-a7781426.html

Lol when you list everything out like that.... It really shows how much of a shambles the tory party actually are to this country. How they can call themselves strong and stable I dont know.... Its the complete opposite.

I wonder the same when people say they are good for the economy too. I know labour dont have a good track record but neither do the tories.... More borrowing with no recognisable improvement... Weak growth and weak wage growth.

 

[Caracus2k]

While I generally agree with your post (although I think May is worse overall), I think the part I quoted is rather shaky.

1) "Terrorism bills" haven't usually been terrorism bills. They're been authoritarian bills passed off as terrorism bills. Ive been opposed to them. Most people who understand them have been opposed to them. Many security experts have been opposed to them, including some people from official anti-terrorism authorities (MIx, etc) who think they reduce security and freedom.

example please.. Of a terrorist bill that's not actually one

2) May is seeking to bring power to a party that showed sympathies to terrorist organisations and which very likely includes ex-terrorists.

May is being realistic that the Tories only option is to seek DUP backing given the seats won by the various parties

3) Corbyn showed clear antipathy towards police in the past. May has weakened and continues to further weaken the police in the present, while Corbyn promises to strengthen the police.

I simply don't believe him, May isn't a friend of the police by any account but she has a record of being far more supportive of law ans order in the UK compares to corbyn who has pulled crass stunts like using remembrance Sunday to lay a wreath for 'protestors killed by the police' sorry I think you and people who think corbyn would support the UK police have been had over and he just lied following the terrorist attacks as he knew he would be ripped apart if he didn't make some reassuring noises....

4) May deals directly with entire countries that have appalling approaches to human rights (not her fault - it's been UK policy for ages) and is publically and fervently committed to ending the entire concept of human rights.

no she's talked about getting rid of the human rights act in its current form, not ending the concept of human rights! You don't help your argument by making such ridiculous and hyperbolic claims. There's a world of difference from dealing with dodgy countries and referring to Hamas and hezbollah as your 'friends' one if a necessary evil of globalised politics and the other a personal choice that you can rightly be judged on (note I have no problem with scrutiny of our foreign dealings and expect the recent to rise administration has much to answer for here)....

On those points, May is clearly much worse than Corbyn

that's your opinon I clearly disagree....[/QUOTE]

 

[Secret_Window]

His manifesto doesn't state that he will maintain membership of the single market... he wants to retain some of the benefits of it. The point is... which I've already pointed out he also wants to control immigration ergo he can't have single market access. Neither party can have single market access, this isn't being antagonistic this is pointing out a simple fact of EU membership. He might want to emulate as much of that single market access as possible but he can't have full access and would have to compromise just like the tories would. Hardly something just aimed at UKIP voters, 52% voted for Brexit, plenty of them are Labour voters.

The strong emphasis on retaining benefits of the single market is open to interpretation, as there is no further detail. Regarding UKIP voters, I meant those that had been Labour voters who had defected to UKIP.

 

[dowie]

The strong emphasis on retaining benefits of the single market is open to interpretation, as there is no further detail. Regarding UKIP voters, I meant those that had been Labour voters who had defected to UKIP.

It is both open to interpretation and negotiation with the EU... however it is constrained by the pledge to limit integration ergo you can't have single market access. You can try to retain as much as possible given that constraint but that depends on how much the EU is willing to allow and what they'd want in return.

 

[easyrider]

Owen Jones being a complete **** on BBC news right now, he is embarrassing.

I think it just highlighted how imature the oldies were by constantly trying to interupt him..

It's about time the youth had a voice...

And they have .

 

[dowie]

Again is this the case (effectively) for Norway?

Yes.

Why are you expecting me to answer things you can look up yourself?

 

[StriderX]

...

The Tories only option is to threaten Northern Ireland?

PFFT OK W/E.

 

[Angilion]

Is that the case for Norway?

Yes - free trade is tied to freedom of movement for Norway too. Norway also has to pay into the EU at about the same level they would if they were a full member and accept most EU law but without any say on anything. It's not the clearly superior deal some people make it out to be. It appears that most Norwegians think it's an adequate compromise, but I don't see that sort of deal getting majority support here even if the EU offered it to the UK (which, of course, they don't have to do).

The Norway/Sweden border might be a useful model for the UK/Eire border post-Brexit, though. It's also a land border between EU and non-EU countries with a lot of cross-border traffic and they've made it work well. The UK/Eire border is a lot messier though. It even goes through houses in some places. Kitchen in one country, living room in another country. Then there's the peace issue - an open border is an important symbol of it.

 

[easyrider]

Completely out of touch

 

[Tefal]

This is a dangerous assumption. I'm 28 and before the election I was going to vote lib Dems. I changed my vote to labour after seeing more of corbyn and having many of his values align with mine. My vote is now strongly with labour. After seeing may dig in her heels to hold onto power with the DUP and the tory party in shambles.... Labour looks more united then ever.

and at 33?

 

[Tefal]

Yes - free trade is tied to freedom of movement for Norway too. Norway also has to pay into the EU at about the same level they would if they were a full member and accept most EU law but without any say on anything. It's not the clearly superior deal some people make it out to be. It appears that most Norwegians think it's an adequate compromise, but I don't see that sort of deal getting majority support here even if the EU offered it to the UK (which, of course, they don't have to do).

The Norway/Sweden border might be a useful model for the UK/Eire border post-Brexit, though. It's also a land border between EU and non-EU countries with a lot of cross-border traffic and they've made it work well. The UK/Eire border is a lot messier though. It even goes through houses in some places. Kitchen in one country, living room in another country. Then there's the peace issue - an open border is an important symbol of it.

how about south korea?

98% of all trade is free iirc.

 

[StriderX]

and at 33?

As evidenced by Cleggs career ending, people don't forget.

 

[VincentHanna]

and at 33?

I'm 35 and have voted Lib Dems in at least the last two elections. I switched to Labour.

 

[Tefal]

As evidenced by Cleggs career ending, people don't forget.

but people seem to start thinking more with thier bank blance