Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[dowie]

I love the way that he argues that's it's bad for Corbyn to lie and then goes on to argue May should have lied more.

that is one of the reasons why I wouldn't say it was 'spot on', still not a bad rant

 

[Rosbif]

I love the way that he argues that's it's bad for Corbyn to lie and then goes on to argue May should have lied more.

Tory in double standard shocker. It's like them saying Labour are fiscally irresponsible when the truth is that the Tories borrow more, pay back less and increase debt more than Labour.

The guy said it was the first time he voted for the Tories (which he felt dirty about) and said that he had previously always voted for Blair

 

[Ayahuasca]

I can see Corbyn getting outed for some of the promises he's made over the coming months as well tbh, this election and the run up will be over analysed to hell and back and someone or a number of people will provide strong evidence against what he claimed was possible.

 

[StriderX]

I can see Corbyn getting outed for some of the promises he's made over the coming months as well tbh, this election and the run up will be over analysed to hell and back and someone or a number of people will provide strong evidence against what he claimed was possible.

Well it is possible to do all the things he said, whether all of was functional wrt to the treasury is entirely pointless to argue as we will never know what the Public Investment thing the manifesto had in it would have raised.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I can see Corbyn getting outed for some of the promises he's made over the coming months as well tbh, this election and the run up will be over analysed to hell and back and someone or a number of people will provide strong evidence against what he claimed was possible.

Like what? It's perfectly possible to do all the things in their manifesto.

 

[FoxEye]

Owen Jones being a complete **** on BBC news right now, he is embarrassing.

Owen Jones is a collection of Facebook posts made flesh. Nothing of substance, but loud and in your face all right.

 

[D.P.]

I'm 39 and voted Labour for the first time.

I think Tefal is mistaken in assuming people stop voting Labour as they "grow up". It's that kind of thinking that led the Tories to screw up their campaign.

I gre up and then started voting labour. Voted Tories hen I was younger and got fooled into the ridiculous myths about Labour fiscal incompetence and Tory superiority. Once i gre up, opened my mind, researched the parties, had a better grasp of economics, had a buyer understanding of the social issues affecting the country my voting pattern has shifted much further to the left.

 

[dalehitchy1]

The guy said it was the first time he voted for the Tories (which he felt dirty about) and said that he had previously always voted for Blair

Although the rant about Theresa is quite accurate I do get the impression that he's easily led on by the sun and daily mail.

He moaned that corbyn lied and then Theresa didn't lie enough (despite liar liar being in the charts).

He voted Blair but feels dirty voting for mays. Its funny that his views sit directly in line with what the papers print....

Vote Blair
Vote Blair again
Ok now vote for tories and brexit
Oh by the way that Blair guy was bad
Ok dont vote for this Corbyn guy

 

[easyrider]

Owen Jones is a collection of Facebook posts made flesh. Nothing of substance, but loud and in your face all right.

No he's not

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Owen Jones is a collection of Facebook posts made flesh. Nothing of substance, but loud and in your face all right.

And exactly what Labours needs in order to cut through the right wing lies and detritus.

 

[Rosbif]

Although the rant about Theresa is quite accurate I do get the impression that he's easily led on by the sun and daily mail.

He moaned that corbyn lied and then Theresa didn't lie enough (despite liar liar being in the charts).

He voted Blair but feels dirty voting for mays. Its funny that his views sit directly in line with what the papers print....

Vote Blair
Vote Blair again
Ok now vote for tories and brexit
Oh by the way that Blair guy was bad
Ok dont vote for this Corbyn guy

Possibly. He seems to have a deep distrust of the far left, continuously referring to them as 'nasty people'. He just sounds like a natural moderate Labour voter, working class bloke who did good, who felt forced to vote Tory to stop far left lunacy from gaining any traction in the country.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I think Tefal is mistaken in assuming people stop voting Labour as they "grow up". It's that kind of thinking that led the Tories to screw up their campaign.

The received wisdom is that: "If you’re not a socialist before you’re twenty-five, you have no heart; if you are a socialist after twenty-five, you have no head." The notion being that young people care but aren't smart enough to see that it doesn't work, when older you learn better. There's basis for the idea that people shift as they get older and have made their way in the world. You tend to adopt a mindset of the struggles you have gone through to get where you are being the right path because it got you where you are, rather than what seems like entitlement when you look back on it. That happens and is common enough for it to be a real effect worth the old chestnut. But I think what we've seen here are two things. Firstly, what dissuaded people from the Tories wasn't the right-wing economics which many are alright with, but the authoritarianism and social conservatism. Secondly, it may be that a generation that has grown up in such relative affluence as this country in the last three decades, simply hasn't lost their idealism in the same way that previous generations often did. They think they can have it all. Maybe they can - who knows. If we can keep the birth rate down and technology progressing, perhaps this time socialism will work!

But anyway, yes - people do move away from socialism in large numbers as they grow up, if by growing up they also become successful. Maybe we simply don't have enough of the self-made people this time around for it to have happened, though.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Oh man 2017 has been boring compared to last year. Not anymore!

 

[FoxEye]

And exactly what Labours needs in order to cut through the right wing lies and detritus.

On TV he is useless.

We can't criticise May for being all soundbites and hyperbole, then praise Owen Jones for just repeating left-wing soundbites and nonsense.

I watched him on Dateline London - I assume that's what the other chap was referring to as well. He can not debate, he just trots out tabloid-style soundbites and nonsense. And also tends to shout over all the others, which is NOT something anybody should praise.

Perhaps he's better off the TV.

 

[Rilot]

I grew up and then started voting labour. Voted Tories hen I was younger and got fooled into the ridiculous myths about Labour fiscal incompetence and Tory superiority. Once i grew up, opened my mind, researched the parties, had a better grasp of economics, had a buyer understanding of the social issues affecting the country my voting pattern has shifted much further to the left.

This is pretty much where I am too. Voted Tory my whole life but as I got older I came to realise that social issues were more important than personal wealth. This shifted my views to the left.

 

[SlugForAButt]

Like brexit

That was the people's choice, just like Corbyn WASNT the peoples choice.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

The received wisdom is that: "If you’re not a socialist before you’re twenty-five, you have no heart; if you are a socialist after twenty-five, you have no head." The notion being that young people care but aren't smart enough to see that it doesn't work, when older you learn better. There's basis for the idea that people shift as they get older and have made their way in the world. You tend to adopt a mindset of the struggles you have gone through to get where you are being the right path because it got you where you are, rather than what seems like entitlement when you look back on it. That happens and is common enough for it to be a real effect worth the old chestnut. But I think what we've seen here are two things. Firstly, what dissuaded people from the Tories wasn't the right-wing economics which many are alright with, but the authoritarianism and social conservatism. Secondly, it may be that a generation that has grown up in such relative affluence as this country in the last three decades, simply hasn't lost their idealism in the same way that previous generations often did. They think they can have it all. Maybe they can - who knows. If we can keep the birth rate down and technology progressing, perhaps this time socialism will work!

But anyway, yes - people do move away from socialism in large numbers as they grow up, if by growing up they also become successful. Maybe we simply don't have enough of the self-made people this time around for it to have happened, though.

I think another factor is now the proliferation of philanthropic billionaires such as Zuckerberg. People "growing up" as it were are now seeing that you can both be monetarily successful and socially responsible or even that you SHOULD be socially responsible.

I'm also seeing a lot of graduates entering careers where their sole driver is job satisfaction or how much impact they can have on / contribute to society, with monetary gain being a distant consideration. I think as we start to see the well educated enter professions they both enjoy and where the pay is "good enough", we'll continue to see their social ideals persist with them as they "grow up".

 

[FoxEye]

That was the people's choice, just like Corbyn WASNT the peoples choice.

I'm not a "********", but Brexit was anything but "the people's choice".

1. Referendum used as protest vote against establishment/politics in general.
2. Campaign lies (on both sides) diluted significance of choice and validity of result.
3. 48/52 split means the people are actually split down the middle.

 

[Gerard]

Oh look, mp's (including Peter Robinson) carrying a uda members coffin, but of course the dup have nothing to do with loyalist paramilitaries whatsoever!

 

[adolf hamster]

I'm not a "********", but Brexit was anything but "the people's choice".

1. Referendum used as protest vote against establishment/politics in general.
2. Campaign lies (on both sides) diluted significance of choice and validity of result.
3. 48/52 split means the people are actually split down the middle.

y'know i wonder if the "brexit means brexit" brigade are simply scared a second referendum wouldn't go their way and are just trying to gloss over it. i know a fair few who voted for brexit who didn't really want (nor expect) it to actually happen.

and the wonderful irony is it looks like we may well end up having to hold a second election just because we didn't get the result we wanted, at which point i look forward to yelling "strong and stable"