Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[Chris Wilson]

Or maybe the youth know that 90% of good jobs are in the EU?

What are they worrying about what England does then, if they love the EU so much? Let them go and live where the "good jobs" are...

 

[Mr Badger]

Maybe just because they're older and wiser and have seen it all before? I don't think you can argue they're adverse to change when they're the ones in favour of upsetting the status quo and leaving the European Union. It's the youth who seem terrified of Brexit because they're more easily manipulated by the scaremongering media.

I don't think you can call it selfishness either, older people voted Tory even with the dementia tax and double lock because they believed in Brexit going forward, if anyone was selfish it was the youth who came out in record number after never having taken an interest in politics before and voting Labour to get free tuition fees. That's basically what stopped May getting a majority.

That is just such total bobbins. To use stereotypes, your typical older Brexit voter doesn't like change (especially involving foreigners) and wants to turn the clock back. Many of them don't own a computer or use the Internet and believe what they read in the Daily Express that the Tories are great and the EU and Labour Party are utterly evil and responsible for all their woes.

 

[RDM]

Lol corbyn today in the house of commons trolling May.

"I look forward to the queens speech just as soon as the coalition of chaos is put together.... Otherwise labour is ready to provide strong and stable leadership in the national interest."

Gotta love our jez lol

Labour would be in an even worse position if they tried to form a government. With 50 less seats they would need the SNP and Lib Dems and the Green and the DUP to get a majority?

 

[Rilot]

It's almost been a year since the EU referendum, I'm still waiting for a single remainer to give me one good argument illustrating why the EU is a good idea.

I've yet to see a single leaver give me one good argument for leaving. So, go for it Scorza. What are the good reasons?

 

[CREATIVE!11]

What are the good reasons?

 

[Chris Wilson]

No room, its stuffed full of young american lasses saying what Chris thinks they should say

3 Germans in there the other night,on their way back from the TT, staying over. Their English wasn't very good but they made it resoundingly clear what they thought of Merkel's open door immigration policy, and I learnt a few derogatory descriptions of them in another tongue..... There's a LOT of resentment of them in Germany, my pal's sister lives there and the situation is volatile, Merkel is trying to appease her people by banning the veil, but I think many want to ban any more of the wearers as well.... Quite a lot on the BBC web site this morning about how various EU countries are wanting to take a much harder stance against the change in culture.

 

[Rilot]

Erm, OK CREATIVE!11. How about we debate properly?

 

[chroniclard]

I've yet to see a single leaver give me one good argument for leaving. So, go for it Scorza. What are the good reasons?

Its not worth it, will just ignore any argument anyway.

 

[Felon]

Or maybe the youth know that 90% of good jobs are in the EU?

For anyone aged 40 and under who works in science or technology (a big chunk of the millennials) I absolutely agree - you only have to go to Ireland to see the sorts of things on offer there, as many of the big tech companies have their EU HQ's in Dublin - for me personally, there's a lot more opportunity in Ireland than there is in the whole of the UK (Internet engineering)

 

[scorza]

Labour would be in an even worse position if they tried to form a government. With 50 less seats they would need the SNP and Lib Dems and the Green and the DUP to get a majority?

I'm sure you know already, but for those who aren't aware the DUP could never support Corbyn as PM given his past support for the IRA.

I've yet to see a single leaver give me one good argument for leaving. So, go for it Scorza. What are the good reasons?

I'll give you four:
1) Don't need to send £billions to Brussels to spend in other countries every year;
2) Can make all our own laws;
3) Can make our own trade deals, no longer will British trade officials have to leave the room at the WTO when the big boys start talking;
4) Don't like our government? give them a bloody nose on polling day - like we did last week. Not an option for the Eurocrat government in Brussels.

 

[adolf hamster]

I've yet to see a single leaver give me one good argument for leaving. So, go for it Scorza. What are the good reasons?

-schrodingers immigrants
-terrorism innit
-apparently we're so culturally incompatible (go to germany for a month, then china for a month, then come back and say that with a straight face)
-£350m we could use on the nhs (so where is it, and how much exactly is the free trade market worth?)
-eu laws

especially on the last point its ridiculous, i've heard the line "glad to be rid of those pesky eu laws" without reference to a single one that's of detriment to the country.

hell i'm a remain voter and i can list one more law in favour of leaving than i've heard from the leavers.

 

[Trifid]

I don't know why you're bothering either. "Votes for cash" would be bribery, not blackmail if that was what was going on - it isn't though, 'votes for budget increases' is a more accurate description and a perfectly legitimate part of the democratic process. As much as Corbyn and his comrades might wish it, the IRA aren't going to start kicking off because the DUP get more cash for Northern Ireland.

Am I meant to feel comforted by that?


P.s. I'm sticking with blackmail...

Bribery: "The offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of something of value for the purpose of influencing the action of an official in the discharge of his or her public or legal duties."

If you want a public or legal official to do something illegal or lie for you, you can offer them money or pay them to do it.

Extortion: "The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right."

Extortion then is taking property (usually money) from someone by threatening them or pretending it's your legal right (as a government official, police officer, etc).

Blackmail: "The crime involving a threat for purposes of compelling a person to do an act against his or her will, or for purposes of taking the person's money or property."

And blackmail is when you threaten someone enough for them to feel they have to pay you or do something in order for you not to carry out the threat.


So therefore the DUP have blackmailed May by threatening to vote against her unless the UK government funds projects in Northern Ireland.

 

[Rilot]

Unfortunately, the vast majority of arguments against seem to just come round to not liking foreigners coming to the UK to take their jobs. Not liking those pesky human rights that stop us doing bad things to our own people, and wanting to take back control of our own borders and laws that we have control over anyway.

For staying in the EU we have as a starter:

Free access to a massive trading bloc
Ability to access a labour market that is far larger than the UK
Ability to negotiate with other non-EU parties as a massive bloc
Ability to buy good and services from anywhere in the EU without additional customs charges
More influence on the world stage (little Britain has very little, the EU has a lot)
Access to massive scientific research budgets

I could go on.

 

[Rilot]

I'm sure you know already, but for those who aren't aware the DUP could never support Corbyn as PM given his past support for the IRA.


I'll give you four:
1) Don't need to send £billions to Brussels to spend in other countries every year;
2) Can make all our own laws;
3) Can make our own trade deals, no longer will British trade officials have to leave the room at the WTO when the big boys start talking;
4) Don't like our government? give them a bloody nose on polling day - like we did last week. Not an option for the Eurocrat government in Brussels.

The funny thing is, you can use the exact same arguments for Cornwall wanting to leave the UK. It's all just a matter of scale.
I'm a one-worlder. I don't like nations or countries at all.

 

[Amp34]

I think that was the guys point. Many people on this forum have been complaining that the young vote was 'bought' or they were 'bribed'. Well if that's the case then so were the old.... But then the same people deny that.

I'm only 28 so I have a lot of friends in the younger age group. Of those that voted labour... Tuition fees were one of but not the main factor in voting for them.

Many wanted a fairer society, a real housing solution, amongst other things. The tories were seen to be going heavily right wing which did not was well with an age group that values freedom and tolerance.

Exactly.

Jobs, education, the housing market, increasing economic disparity between old and young and Brexit are all major factors in why younger people aren't interested in supporting the Conservatives. Add the assault on technology and the internet to that too.

Many see the Conservatives as protecting the interests of the old (propping up the housing market, triple lock pensions etc) and aren't interested in voting for that when their relative income is dropping and the house prices/rent are also making significant increases (both actual and relative to salary).

 

[scorza]

Am I meant to feel comforted by that?


P.s. I'm sticking with blackmail...

Bribery: "The offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of something of value for the purpose of influencing the action of an official in the discharge of his or her public or legal duties."

If you want a public or legal official to do something illegal or lie for you, you can offer them money or pay them to do it.

Extortion: "The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right."

Extortion then is taking property (usually money) from someone by threatening them or pretending it's your legal right (as a government official, police officer, etc).

Blackmail: "The crime involving a threat for purposes of compelling a person to do an act against his or her will, or for purposes of taking the person's money or property."

And blackmail is when you threaten someone enough for them to feel they have to pay you or do something in order for you not to carry out the threat.


So therefore the DUP have blackmailed May by threatening to vote against her unless the UK government funds projects in Northern Ireland.

Better call the police then! rofl

 

[scorza]

The funny thing is, you can use the exact same arguments for Cornwall wanting to leave the UK.

So you can, and I always support the right of self-determination. Question is, why don't remainers also support this right?

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Erm, OK CREATIVE!11. How about we debate properly?

Sorry chief.

 

[Roar87]

I've yet to see a single leaver give me one good argument for leaving. So, go for it Scorza. What are the good reasons?

Once you give away your right to govern yourself it's very difficult to get it back. Governments hardly ever abolish laws and regulations, they only create new ones.

 

[Rilot]

Once you give away your right to govern yourself it's very difficult to get it back. Governments hardly ever abolish laws and regulations, they only create new ones.

Now, that is a reasonable and good reason. I will give you that.