Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[stewski]

So you can, and I always support the right of self-determination. Question is, why don't remainers also support this right?

So you support Scotland/Wales/NI./Cornwall leaving the Union?

 

[Greebo]

So you support Scotland/Wales/NI./Cornwall leaving the Union?

That's what I don't get, Most Brexiteers are against Scotland leaving and think they are mad.

But the arguments they believe in as a good reason to leave the EU applies to Scotland leaving too.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

That's what I don't get, Most Brexiteers are against Scotland leaving and think they are mad.

But the arguments they believe in as a good reason to leave the EU applies to Scotland leaving too.

Well that ship has sailed.

Most of them voted Conservative to stop the SNP pushing for a second indy ref.

 

[scorza]

So you support Scotland/Wales/NI./Cornwall leaving the Union?

Since I'm not Scots/Welsh/Ulster or Cornish it's none of my business really, however had Scotland voted to become independent then I would have supported that decision. One thing I can tell you is that I would have been very disappointed with my government if they'd tried to make life difficult for Scotland over Scottish Independence as the EU are doing to us over UK Independence. I don't support a new Scottish referendum because you can't really keep holding referendums until you get the result you want, I don't regard that as democratic - EU should take note. I don't see any great demand for a referendum on Welsh or Cornish independence, the situation in NI is a bit more complicated because of the GFA. Like I said, none of my business really - if they want to leave the UK they should be able to.

 

[easyrider]

Maybe just because they're older and wiser and have seen it all before? I don't think you can argue they're adverse to change when they're the ones in favour of upsetting the status quo and leaving the European Union. It's the youth who seem terrified of Brexit because they're more easily manipulated by the scaremongering media.

I don't think you can call it selfishness either, older people voted Tory even with the dementia tax and double lock because they believed in Brexit going forward, if anyone was selfish it was the youth who came out in record number after never having taken an interest in politics before and voting Labour to get free tuition fees. That's basically what stopped May getting a majority.

BS Post

 

[Amp34]

Maybe just because they're older and wiser and have seen it all before? I don't think you can argue they're adverse to change when they're the ones in favour of upsetting the status quo and leaving the European Union. It's the youth who seem terrified of Brexit because they're more easily manipulated by the scaremongering media.

I don't think you can call it selfishness either, older people voted Tory even with the dementia tax and double lock because they believed in Brexit going forward, if anyone was selfish it was the youth who came out in record number after never having taken an interest in politics before and voting Labour to get free tuition fees. That's basically what stopped May getting a majority.

Seen environmental protection and climate change before?

The scaremongering media that are overwhelmingly critical of the EU?

The other issue with the EU fallacy is that the criticism and negativity towards it hasn't just occurred, it's been ever pervasive for decades. You could have an argument there if many of the people that voted Leave used to be pro EU, but that's very unlikely.

What young people are seeing, that the older people are not - having settled down, owned their own home and had their kids and not too interesting moving - is that leaving the EU is going to have massive repercussions on opportunities for them, even if it's just the reduction in opportunity to live and work in a much wider area than just the UK.

And as already mentioned, you think the young only voted labour for free tuition fees? The only young people that would be affected by that are the 18-20 year olds, and even then considering how fees have been enacted in the past it would only be those that plan on going later in life that would be affected - the changes have only ever affected those not currently in the system.

Edit: and I'd still like to discuss the actual question. It's pretty consistent across many countries, not just the UK so Brexit is just one example. Republican supporters are another prime example as I mentioned, being anti climate change legislation, anti environmental protection and seemingly anti free trade and immigration.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

Best reason to leave the EU is knowing who is directly responsible for the power controlling the land. That shouldn't be taken for granted.

MEPs are basically the worst of the crop. It amazes me they get so much oversight to every nation in the EU.

I'm 50/50 on the whole thing. But to say there aren't any benefits to leaving just isn't true.

I don't buy the whole "less influence on the world stage" nonsense. Countries come direct to us, and will continue doing so.

Financially is where we risk oblivion. But then you got to ask, would most people be any worse off? I highly doubt it. If you've got no savings and can't afford to save, then you just make do and will continue to make do.

 

[Christmas themed thank]

John Major saying the DUP deal is a bad idea now.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

John Major saying the DUP deal is a bad idea now.

It is. I don't even know why they did it. They didn't need the DUP to form a minority government. It's ridiculous.

 

[TwsT]

So they're taking our jerbs instead?

jerbs we don't want.

I'm guessing it was the hours on a 12-hour shift 4 on 4 off factory work is deemed too much for many people. Recruiting local people for Dairy Crest in Gloucestershire proved so hard. The pay was good when I worked there even if the work was mind-numbingly boring. But no beyond a handful of managers and engineers most of the workforce was immigrant.

What I don't get about most die in the wool Conservative voters (as someone that has voted conservative in the past) is their thought process. Resistance to climate change, environmental and societal protection, immigration etc. seems to be far greater in the "Conservative" realm (not just the UK, the US is another prime example) than any other political persuasion.

Is it because they are adverse to change - the social Conservative - and believe things are fine the way they are. They've been living with pollution from coal for 50 years so and it hasn't been detrimental to them... Or is it because of the fiscal conservative side - environmental protection is going to cost me money, immigration is perceived to affect me negatively, spending more on the poor will mean my taxes will go up.

Basically is it because people are adverse to change, or is it selfishness because they don't perceive any benefit to themselves? Or is there another reason?

This is not meant to be an attack on the conservative motivation, it just seems odd that it's predominantly conservative leaning people that are against environmental protection and don't agree with things like climate change.

I don't know, it's a terribly british attitude to not rock the boat when all is dandy. Climate change deniers in the US are a totally different kettle of fish almost militant about it. Some of the far right just believe we should be focussed on space travel now and that this world is done for.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Thought it was exactly about that - you don't like the idea of the DUP working with the government. Well hard cheese, the election delivered 318 seats for the Conservatives and 10 for the DUP which is enough for a government - that's called democracy.

lawl

The DUP received - 292,316 votes = 10 Seats
The Greens received - 524,604 votes = 01 Seat

That's not my idea of democracy, first past the post is a joke and needs scrapping asap.

 

[LabR@t]

BS Post

No it's not, the older generation know Life without the EU is possible, a lot of the youth have been told if we leave the sky will fall in

 

[LabR@t]

lawl

The DUP received - 292,316 votes = 10 Seats
The Greens received - 524,604 votes = 01 Seat

That's not my idea of democracy, first past the post is a joke and needs scrapping asap.

If it keeps the greens out, it's working

 

[LabR@t]

lawl

The DUP received - 292,316 votes = 10 Seats
The Greens received - 524,604 votes = 01 Seat

That's not my idea of democracy, first past the post is a joke and needs scrapping asap.

Worse off? Proof please, or are you continuing project fear

 

[easyrider]

No it's not, the older generation know Life without the EU is possible, a lot of the youth have been told if we leave the sky will feel in

Yes it is

f anyone was selfish it was the youth who came out in record number after never having taken an interest in politics before and voting Labour to get free tuition fees. That's basically what stopped May getting a majority.

^^^^^^^ This is nonsense^^^^^^^

 

[Tefal]

lawl

The DUP received - 292,316 votes = 10 Seats
The Greens received - 524,604 votes = 01 Seat

That's not my idea of democracy, first past the post is a joke and needs scrapping asap.

except you're not voting for the party.

its not one election its lots of small ones, in a constituency you vote for the mp, the votes in other constituencies dont count so including them is misrepresenting it as a party election.


other wise you could have say cheshire voting for conservatives but being given a labour mp because labour got lots of votes nation wide.

 

[stewski]

Since I'm not Scots/Welsh/Ulster or Cornish it's none of my business really, however had Scotland voted to become independent then I would have supported that decision. One thing I can tell you is that I would have been very disappointed with my government if they'd tried to make life difficult for Scotland over Scottish Independence as the EU are doing to us over UK Independence. I don't support a new Scottish referendum because you can't really keep holding referendums until you get the result you want, I don't regard that as democratic - EU should take note. I don't see any great demand for a referendum on Welsh or Cornish independence, the situation in NI is a bit more complicated because of the GFA. Like I said, none of my business really - if they want to leave the UK they should be able to.

A 3.5% swing in the last Scottish Indy ref would have seen the leave vote the same as Brexit!

I also don't support indy2 or any other myopic nationalists, I even entertained the potential benefits of brexit, though on average argued it was too risky that close to 2008 and Indy ref1.

That said you laying all the blame at the EU's door for the ineptitude of the current government is something of a joke! We have a "world sized" negotiating problem, let's invite the most divisive US president in my life time for a full state visit faster than any potus in history, suggest the team we are negotiating with in the EU are interfering with a pointless election we called and go cap in hand to the Commonwealth to come away with nothing!

 

[Christmas themed thank]

No it's not, the older generation know Life without the EU is possible, a lot of the youth have been told if we leave the sky will fall in

After having benefited their whole lives from it, of course.

Even the most Tory of Tories, Thatcher, thought the single market was a good idea.

 

[Mojo]

Worse off? Proof please, or are you continuing project fear

#sigh# I hate the whole "project fear" label, using the same hyperbole I could well call the Brexit campaign "project idiot".

Proportional rep and FPTP both have advantages and disadvantages. FPTP is a better way to more effectively get majority governments but it results in uneven representation in govt. Swings and roundabouts really

 

[adolf hamster]

Best reason to leave the EU is knowing who is directly responsible for the power controlling the land. That shouldn't be taken for granted.

again the issue i take with this argument is ok it's a point, but i've yet to been shown this supposedly extensive list of laws voted in by the "unelected eu officials" that are providing such a detriment to our country, yet things like free trade, free travel, working time directive, hell even the tpd have all provided tangible benefits.

No it's not, the older generation know Life without the EU is possible, a lot of the youth have been told if we leave the sky will fall in

this is the older generation who was doing so well without the eu they voted to join it?