Soldato
what added performance, he was beaten all season by a teammate thats at the end of his career
jenson has just given up trying the last few seasons
F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
what added performance, he was beaten all season by a teammate thats at the end of his career
jenson has just given up trying the last few seasons
I think FrankJH doesnt want to admit that the Jenson of old, is long gone.
Soldato
That is the name for the locals. I used to live there in Stewart Drive for all of my young life (85 to 97) until i went to uni.
Phone up the doctors surgery and they will say "Silson surgery, how can i help".
Soldato
lol! Its been called that for 100s of years!!I would'nt worry, it sounds carp, and will die
http://www.information-britain.co.uk/showPlace.cfm?Place_ID=53661
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...-rescue-package-from-Mexican-billionaire.html
Honda F1 team in line for rescue package from Mexican billionaire
Honda F1 team in line for rescue package from Mexican billionaire
It would be an amazing "save", if it is true.
What is also stunning is that once again Button has got the nod ahead of Barrichello, despite, being outperformed by Barrichello. If anyone had to go, it shouldve been Button.
I'm shocked.
Is Button giving team bosses sexual favours or something, where they feel they should fight to keep him in the sport?
Soldato
Barrichello has been saying for awhile he wants to try something else, so he will be at Sebring driving for his old friend Gil De Ferran in his Acura LMP1, and if De Ferran gets his secound Acura like he wants too mabe Barrichello will be doing the full ALMS season.
Soldato
Do you ever consider the merest, most slight possibility that you might actually be wrong about Button being a washed-up has-been who is now merely in it for the money? At all? Or do you reject all such possibilities and instead put it down to idiocy on the part of Formula One teams?
In 2007, when Button was performing badly, it was all put down to the bad car. At that point there could've been an argument that maybe this was true.
After 2008, where Button was outperformed by Barrichello, who was comprehensively blown away by MS, previously, there is no reason to believe that Button has what it takes.
In comparison, we saw in 2008, Alonso move to Renault, in a car that really wasn't competitive at all and after the first few races none of us would've imagined that the Renault was capable of winning a race. As the season wore on, however, together with his team, he improved the car and pushed the car to the limit, culminating in 2 race wins. Drivers like MS, Alonso, etc have this ability. Button does not.
When you are getting beat by Barrichello (a driver who is retiring), that should set alarm bells ringing.
Perhaps JRS could give a structured argument FOR Button?
After 2008, where Button was outperformed by Barrichello, who was comprehensively blown away by MS, previously, there is no reason to believe that Button has what it takes.
In comparison, we saw in 2008, Alonso move to Renault, in a car that really wasn't competitive at all and after the first few races none of us would've imagined that the Renault was capable of winning a race. As the season wore on, however, together with his team, he improved the car and pushed the car to the limit, culminating in 2 race wins. Drivers like MS, Alonso, etc have this ability. Button does not.
When you are getting beat by Barrichello (a driver who is retiring), that should set alarm bells ringing.
Perhaps JRS could give a structured argument FOR Button?
You can't say that much about either driver for 2008, Barrichello out scored Button but he only scored in 3 races, and 6 of the 11 points came from a wet race at Silverstone.
Yes he did better but not like he was picking up odd points at every race or anything.
Yes he did better but not like he was picking up odd points at every race or anything.
My point stands though: Button was outperformed by his team-mate, who I believe also outqualified Button over course of the season. The better performing driver is being turfed out, while the guy who was outperformed is being kept on.
I think you are looking to make excuses for Button.
Remember, this is F1. Its a cut-throat business, where there are scores of drivers waiting to take his place.
No one owes Button an F1 drive. He had to prove himself to get into F1 and must prove himself to stay. Right now, I dont see him doing that.
Not making excuses - Barrichello clearly did a better job this season.
Slightly off topic - if you have Sky, they are showing the 1977 British GP tonight @ 8pm on ESPN Classic channel 442.
http://www.espnclassic.com/tvguide.php
http://www.espnclassic.com/tvguide.php
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Soldato
Tell you what then, here's a good argument FOR him:
He's still (just) in F1.
As you say, this is a cut-throat business. No room for sentiment, if you don't perform you're out. So he must be doing something right at Honda - they extended his contract before the team situation went arse-over-tit. Sponsors like him, and he's one of the fittest drivers on the grid.
He can't still be trading on the reputation that he gained in 2004 at BAR. F1 doesn't work like that. Yes, Rubens out-performed him this season. But he's also a lot older than Button and won't be driving in F1 a whole lot longer if his contract was renewed. Sure, they could take a chance on another rookie to replace Button - but they know Button, they obviously get on with him (otherwise he'd have left in a sulk and joined Renault, as I believe tradition holds when you fall out with a team), so why take the chance?
Can you tell me what it is exactly that he is doing right, because for the life of me, I cant see it?
Fitness counts for very little I'm afraid. MS brought the whole super fitness aspect to F1 driving, however, he did this when he was exploring other means of improving his performance and felt he had gone as far as he could in other areas of improvement. He left no stone unturned.
Unfortunately now, rather too much is made of the required fitness level.
Massa isnt too fit, but he did rather well in 2008.
Similarly, when Mansell drove well in 1992/3, he did pretty well and wasnt particularly fit.
Fitness is important, but it wont make a great driver.
Honda could've taken on Bruno Senna and Barrichello. This means you have a combination of experience and youth. The hope being that they give Senna 1 year to see how he gets along. Meanwhile they know that they will have at least 1 driver (Barrichello), who will be making the most of the car they provide.
With Button, he is going nowhere fast. We have seen this pattern emerge over the last 2 years. This is fact, based on 2007/8. There has been no improvement and I would argue he has actually gone backwards over the last 3 years.
If they kept Barrichello, the reason would've been based on past performance. They have kept Button based on the fact that Button doesnt sulk?
Don
Would it cost more to dump button than to ease Barichello out to pasture?
Associate
Soldato
I don't really have to - the fact that he has lasted 155 races in this business with only 1 win to his name means that there must be something going for him. They pay him a fortune, so it isn't his cash like many pay-drivers before him. There are plenty of young kids waiting in the wings to have a go at being the next Ayrton Senna or the next Michael Schumacher or even The Messiah 2.0™.
You and I don't have to see it. That's down to the team. We just get to watch the results of their labours every race weekend.
/sits back and waits for the calls of "cop-out!"