F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Don
Perhaps money was the reason, as i stated above?
Would it cost more to dump button, than it would Barichello? Also, looking at that link, there appears to be no buyout, so we are probably debating nothing
Would it cost more to dump button, than it would Barichello? Also, looking at that link, there appears to be no buyout, so we are probably debating nothing
JRS may not have provided details, but he is absolutely right. Button must be doing something right or he wouldn't be picking up the millions. We don't have one tenth the information the team principles have on drivers so it's hardly surprising that his 'tallants' aren't obvious to us. Maybe he's just sitting on a stack of dodgy photos of someone!
Say you could buy the team for pretty much nothing and just have to fund the running costs. We're told their budget is $400 million. Knock that down to $300m for '09 and $200m from 2010 with all the cost savings. Running the team for five years would need $1.1bn less any sponsorship. Being very pessimistic about sponsorship lets call it a cool $1bn.
Who's got a billion dollars to 'play' F1 for five years?
Here's Wikipedia's list of the 100 wealthiest people. They range from Warren Buffett with $62bn down to George Soros with $9bn. The data was Feb08 so given the credit crunch maybe knock a third off many of those valuations!
Anyway, it seems any of those 100 individuals could realistically afford to play F1 for a few seasons. If I was the boss of Honda I'd be putting in personal calls to them all pitching the F1 scene to them. Sure they won't make money out of it, but they might have a lot of fun!
It's not such a crazy idea, Abramovich did something similar with football.
Who's got a billion dollars to 'play' F1 for five years?
Here's Wikipedia's list of the 100 wealthiest people. They range from Warren Buffett with $62bn down to George Soros with $9bn. The data was Feb08 so given the credit crunch maybe knock a third off many of those valuations!
Anyway, it seems any of those 100 individuals could realistically afford to play F1 for a few seasons. If I was the boss of Honda I'd be putting in personal calls to them all pitching the F1 scene to them. Sure they won't make money out of it, but they might have a lot of fun!
It's not such a crazy idea, Abramovich did something similar with football.
Soldato
*sigh*
The point, missing you are, hmm?
Why would they stick with him if they, the team and people most likely to know, thought he was under-performing? Answer - they wouldn't. This is Formula One. Unless your name starts with 'K' and ends in 'imi Raikkonen' you don't get to under-perform and keep your job.
So maybe, just maybe, he isn't actually under-performing. Maybe he's trying damned hard in an utter donkey of a car. Certainly looks to me like he is, but apparently you don't see it. If, for the moment, we assume that I'm right (hey, it does happen occasionally), what incentive do they have to take a risk on another driver when a) they know Button's driving style, b) know his personality and c) obviously have gotten on with both of those over the years?
All we see each race weekend is a botched, horrible excuse for a Formula One car being flogged around by a man whose talent is being criminally wasted. If BAR/Honda had been able to carry the momentum that they had in 2004, with Button and Sato regularly outscoring bigger names, then they might have made a champion out of Jenson. As it is, they've just about made sure that he'll never win a title now. Terribly, terribly sad.
Don't forget you can get a lot via sponsorship and from winning etc.
Yeah, I didn't want to include much of that because sponsorship budgets are bound to be significantly cut over the next couple of years and the 'new' team would be unlikely to win much anytime soon.
I really hope they do find a buyer but I'm doubtful.
Hopefully we'll find out a bit more info when they release some details on the potential buyers in January.
Red Bull unlikely to unveil their RB5 until March in the last test session before the new season starts? Cutting it a bit fine isn't it?
They do have to build twice as many as anyone else..
Soldato
lol. I'd like to see him get a chance in a big team. Would have been nice to have him driving for McLaren instead of Kova, that would please the Kova haters as well as giving Button a chance to compare himself against Lewis without anyone blaming a weaker car.
Button would never join or have joined McLaren, due to the following reasons:
1: he would need to work hard and work under a lot of pressure - something he isnt used to or prepared to do. This is why he chooses to stay in teams that are at the back of the grid.
2: he would've had to take a pay cut, compared to big salary he was getting paid by Honda.
3: every mistake he made would come under the microscope, which is what happens when you are driving in a championship winning car.
4: everytime he had a poor race/qualifying, it would be highlighted and scrutinised.
5: at the end of the season, his points total would be compared with Hamilton's and we all know that over the last 2 years, Hamilton has scored more points than any other driver in F1, making it statistically difficult for Button to get close. Mentally, before even signing on the dotted line to drive with Hamilton, he would be petrified as his entire reputation could be shot to pieces 9 months later (should Hamilton blow him away).
6: everything Button did would be compared directly to Hamilton and as we all know Hamilton is something very special - even the driver widely recognised as the best in F1 (Alonso), was unable to outscore Hamilton, in the same car.
Button would have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose...unless he believed that he could beat Hamilton, in which case he would relish the challenge, but we all know that isnt the case.
I have nothing against Button per se but it's far from certain that he has the talent to compete at the very front as he's never been in a position to prove this one way or the other. Personally I think he's a good driver but I don't think he's at the level of Hamilton, Massa, Raikkonen or Alonso.
Regardless of the above, his career is all but over IMO. If Honda don't find a buyer I don't think he'll ever race in F1 again and, even if they do find one, I have no confidence that Honda will be running at the front in the near future, despite their claims. Button will be lucky to race in F1 again, very lucky to win another race and a championship? - not a chance.
Some of his current circumstance is down to bad luck but a lot of it is down to bad decisions he's made during his career.
Regardless of the above, his career is all but over IMO. If Honda don't find a buyer I don't think he'll ever race in F1 again and, even if they do find one, I have no confidence that Honda will be running at the front in the near future, despite their claims. Button will be lucky to race in F1 again, very lucky to win another race and a championship? - not a chance.
Some of his current circumstance is down to bad luck but a lot of it is down to bad decisions he's made during his career.
Yes yes, but CSI, it was upto those drivers to negotiate their way into those better performing cars.
None of those drivers got into competitive cars by laying back, taking it easy, bottle of beer in hand, feet up - wait for knock on door. They had to graft. They had to get their agents to talk to other teams and put the word out that their client was "looking".
If you look at what Alonso is doing right now - he is laying the ground work for a big money move to Ferrari. He finished the year very strongly, to show that he still has what it takes, unlike Button who seemed extraordinarily relaxed during 2008. Do you think Alonso, Senna, Prost or Mansell would've been so relaxed under similar circumstances?
If you look at how Senna arrived at Williams (which turned out to be a bad move) - it took 18 months for him to achieve his goal, after he practically begged to join the Williams team.
Being a top-line driver in F1 is not only about being good on the track, but also having the cunning (off-track), to manouvre himself into the best team/car. Button has done a terrible job of this and has landed himself in a situation where, once again, he would've been at the back of the grid (no matter what Brawn was saying, as its difficult to take him seriously after the lies he spouted in 2008) - the fact that Honda pulled out, saved them and Button the embarrassment of qualifying around the back, at the start of 2009, with Brawn then declaring that they are concentrating their efforts for 2010 (the story that has been used repeatedly).
Red Bull unlikely to unveil their RB5 until March in the last test session before the new season starts? Cutting it a bit fine isn't it?
No mate will be on the 9th of February at Jerez
Soldato
Button was trading blows with Alonso back in the BAR before Alonso took the title and they had some good battles in more or less equally pegged cars (although the BAR wasn't as reliable as the renner). One race he spent one handed to keep his visor closed.
He was a great driver, but we can't tell what he'll be like in a competative car. I still have faith though.
He was a great driver, but we can't tell what he'll be like in a competative car. I still have faith though.
Soldato
I would agree there. Not that I dislike him at all. I actually prefer him to the "Golden Child"
If it were me and I was getting a bit fed up with F1, I'd go try my hand GT racing or maybe a couple of seasons in DTM - seems to be a favorite of ex-F1 drivers. Maybe even a spot of Indy in the states - always works moving in that direction just not if your going the other way
