I agree with that really, these new teams are a joke and F1 is ruining itself to cater for teams with no budget, strangling the top teams to keep teams like HRT going.
F1 2012 - Teams and Drivers - Who goes where?!
- Thread starter Malt_Vinegar
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I agree with that really, these new teams are a joke and F1 is ruining itself to cater for teams with no budget, strangling the top teams to keep teams like HRT going.
Caporegime
I feel sorry for the new teams. They entered promised a budget cap and ended up in a whole different ball game.
Personally I think it's to their very real credit that they've managed to keep bringing cars to every race through two F1 seasons. Give them a bit of time.
Did Manor, USF1 and whoever it was who eventually became HRT not sign up to F1 while the FIA were promising them the discussions around budgets with the existing teams would result in a £40m budget cap? Team Lotus signed later, after the deal was changed, but it was Mike Gascoynes second attempt after trying to join with Litespeed (I think) earlier, at the same time as Manor and 'soon to be HRT' were signing up, so also under the promise of a budget cap.
I'm fairly certain the new teams were being signed up at a time when the FIA said there would be a budget cap, and before in season testing was banned.
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Budget Cap plans were announced by the FIA in April 2009.
Campos Meta F1 were announced as joining F1 on the 12th June 2009.
Manor Racing were announced as joining F1 on the 12th June 2009.
USF1 were announced as joining F1 on the 12th June 2009
On June 24th 2009, FOM announced the budget cap had been scrapped, replaced with an agreement that the teams would look to cut costs themselves
As part of the agreed cost cutting measures, in season testing was banned.
So yes, they were.
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getting rid of in season testing was 2009ish and already it was pretty limited? getting rid of it was part of cutting budgets to assist these new teams who could not afford it. They would not turn up for in-season testing anyway, just another silly rule to try and strangle the top teams from spending their money.
Campos is hrt
Manor is virgin
Usf1 never made it to the grid, possibly influenced by the no budget cap.
Yes, but they changed hands, we still don't think Minardi and Jordan are on the grid right?
Most are buy outs with change of personal.
These are change of names due to finding more sponsors. These teams were expecting a capped budget. That didn't happen, so they had to adapt.
Team Lotus doesn't count, thats fair. They joined later.
But Marussia and HRT are in effect the same teams that signed the deal. Campos and Manor were not dropped and replaced by other teams, they were merely bought out (or in Marussia's case, just rebranded Virgin by a sponsor). The teams that sat down with Bernie and said "yes, were in" when they were promised a budget cap are the same teams on the grid now, just with different owners.
As Glaucus said, half the reason for them having to find more sponsors or sell the teams was due to the budget cap they were all promised being scrapped, and them suddenly having to find more money.
The situation still stands. 2 of the 3 new teams are in a very different F1 to what they were promised when they signed up. The fact they are still on the grid is an achievement in itself.
Interesting that the 1 new team that joined knowing there wasn't going to be a budget cap is the 1 that is doing the best...
The biggest joke here is the selection process the FIA/FOM went through to come up with the 3 original teams (Campos, USF1 and Manor). Considering the other options that were on the table, it almost looks like they deliberately chose the weaker options.
But Marussia and HRT are in effect the same teams that signed the deal. Campos and Manor were not dropped and replaced by other teams, they were merely bought out (or in Marussia's case, just rebranded Virgin by a sponsor). The teams that sat down with Bernie and said "yes, were in" when they were promised a budget cap are the same teams on the grid now, just with different owners.
As Glaucus said, half the reason for them having to find more sponsors or sell the teams was due to the budget cap they were all promised being scrapped, and them suddenly having to find more money.
The situation still stands. 2 of the 3 new teams are in a very different F1 to what they were promised when they signed up. The fact they are still on the grid is an achievement in itself.
Interesting that the 1 new team that joined knowing there wasn't going to be a budget cap is the 1 that is doing the best...
The biggest joke here is the selection process the FIA/FOM went through to come up with the 3 original teams (Campos, USF1 and Manor). Considering the other options that were on the table, it almost looks like they deliberately chose the weaker options.
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Bit like saying Jordan are still on the grid just with different owners? Or Minardi?
I don't think the situation stands, these 2 teams have been bought/changed hands in the complete knowledge there was no budget cap.
I agree the FIA picked the wrong teams though as none of them had any sort of budget, even with the cap.
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No, there wasn't a buy out, they are name changes and name changes only. So same team different name. The management and team is the same.
Other teams have been brought out and therefore know what they are buying into.
I think the point here is these teams had to be bought out to be able to stay in F1 because the F1 they were going to compete in had changed from the F1 they were planning on competing in when they signed on the dotted line.
Campos and Manor could have been able to survive fine with a £40m budget cap.
Oh, and Mr Men, your argument doesn't stand about being 'bought out' for Manor/Virgin/Marussia. Up until Marussia bought the team, it was exactly the same Manor Racing team that signed the deal in 2009. The Virgin Racing brand was simply that, a brand name, as part of the Virgin sponsorship.
But anyway, Mr Men, what exactly are you trying to argue? I've kinda lost track of what the original point was.
Campos and Manor could have been able to survive fine with a £40m budget cap.
Oh, and Mr Men, your argument doesn't stand about being 'bought out' for Manor/Virgin/Marussia. Up until Marussia bought the team, it was exactly the same Manor Racing team that signed the deal in 2009. The Virgin Racing brand was simply that, a brand name, as part of the Virgin sponsorship.
But anyway, Mr Men, what exactly are you trying to argue? I've kinda lost track of what the original point was.
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Virgin wasn't a sell out. It was a sponsorship. Same team. Wasnt sold till 2011.
Hrt wasn't sold till well after devlopment started and funds in place.
Oh yes it stands up, sorry
These 2 teams are not the same as they were when they signed up to F1, no matter how you want to try and say otherwise.