I read earlier that Honda want Button and Alonso but Mclaren are leaning more towards Mag ( Ron is anyway ) whilst Eric wants Jenson...
But if the choice comes down to Mclaren ultimately then we all know who has the biggest say in that one...
F1 2015 - Teams and Drivers - Who goes where?!
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I read earlier that Honda want Button and Alonso but Mclaren are leaning more towards Mag ( Ron is anyway ) whilst Eric wants Jenson...
But if the choice comes down to Mclaren ultimately then we all know who has the biggest say in that one...
I don't think Jenson would tolerate a "no 2" contract ... he has proved that over his career given the car he's capable of winning races, would you want to spend your entire life dedicated towards winning and proving that you can do it given the proper tools, only to then be told that you've got to let the other guy win instead. It's not in his vocab, he'd walk if that was the case, and a part of me thinks Mclaren haven't nor ever would offer this to Jenson, it's a bit of a **** take tbqh, and I'm sure Mclaren would realise this before having the cheek and audacity to ask it.
A fly on the wall of any f1 contract negotiations would be fascinating wouldn't it 
If JB is renegotiating a McLaren offering, then who knows? He could simply be playing hard-ball as he could easily leave F1 with his head held-high, and he could be reminding McLaren that he's a solid performer withe reliable points scoring ability. For constructers, points literally mean prizes at the end of the season after all.
So where could McLaren go of JB decides to retire from F1? Magnusson hasn't impressed, so who could jump into the seat at this late stage? Try something new and hope for the best (hasn't worked out so well with KMag this year), or keep JB as a known quantity?
If JB is renegotiating a McLaren offering, then who knows? He could simply be playing hard-ball as he could easily leave F1 with his head held-high, and he could be reminding McLaren that he's a solid performer withe reliable points scoring ability. For constructers, points literally mean prizes at the end of the season after all.
So where could McLaren go of JB decides to retire from F1? Magnusson hasn't impressed, so who could jump into the seat at this late stage? Try something new and hope for the best (hasn't worked out so well with KMag this year), or keep JB as a known quantity?
I was just thinking - Stefan Dominicali has moved to an unspecified role within Audi, and Whitmarsh has literally vanished off the face of the earth (maybe he's under Ron Dennis' patio).
Could either of these two pop up in some mysterious role in F1 soon? Could this affect the remaining decisions?
Could either of these two pop up in some mysterious role in F1 soon? Could this affect the remaining decisions?
A fly on the wall of any f1 contract negotiations would be fascinating wouldn't it
If JB is renegotiating a McLaren offering, then who knows? He could simply be playing hard-ball as he could easily leave F1 with his head held-high, and he could be reminding McLaren that he's a solid performer withe reliable points scoring ability. For constructers, points literally mean prizes at the end of the season after all.
So where could McLaren go of JB decides to retire from F1? Magnusson hasn't impressed, so who could jump into the seat at this late stage? Try something new and hope for the best (hasn't worked out so well with KMag this year), or keep JB as a known quantity?
Keep Jenson, the words gift horse and mouth spring to mind somewhat, and that pov is gaining momentum for me the longer this saga draws on...
Herbert pointed out today, infact "urged" Mclaren to keep Jenson on and his points highlighted all the reasons why...
As you say ... solid performer, known quantity, points getter, calming and stabilizing presence in the team.
K Mag offers none of this, the only thing he offers is a guess, a guess that he could potentially be half decent, but given the fact that he knew before this season that every race needs to be taken with the absolute level of perfection possible in order to impress in a seat which can be easily taken away from him, he's not done enough.
On every level (apart from financially speaking) Jenson is the better choice, but money speaks, and that's why there are a lot of reports saying that he's being offered different levels of renumeration.
Soldato
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Shattered? Really. Tainted, yes, but it's not like he's gone from multiple champion to Lavaggi.
Shattered? Really. Tainted, yes, but it's not like he's gone from multiple champion to Lavaggi.
Yes, shattered. Vettel went into this season on the back of his best champions season; he goes out of it having being utterly outclassed by a relatively inexperienced teammate who moved onto his turf and made Vettel look utterly ordinary.
If he doesn't manage to re-assert himself in Ferrari all the stats on Earth will count for nought.
Soldato
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And if he does re-assert himself and even win a championship should Ferrari ever produce a decent car, then I guess you'll have to hail him as one of the greatest in the modern era.
As it stands I think Vettel is the most overrated driver in F1. If he manages to impress at Ferrari, I'll re-assess my opinion in the light of new data.
I don't expect him to.
So even if your a multiple champion, if the following year you get beaten by a rookie that means your just pants, and massively over rated?
Someone best tell Alonso.
OK, let's be fair, that was only 2 titles. Perhaps you need more? Maybe 7, only to then be beaten by your team mate 3 years in a row?
Man, that Schumacher guy was really over rated.
Someone best tell Alonso.
OK, let's be fair, that was only 2 titles. Perhaps you need more? Maybe 7, only to then be beaten by your team mate 3 years in a row?
Man, that Schumacher guy was really over rated.
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Caporegime
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It entirely depends on who the other driver is AND how close you get to them. Alonso and Hamilton both had 109 points. The difference between Ricciardo and Vettel was not even remotely that close.
You can physically see from watching Alonso, Hamilton or Ricciardo what good drivers they are if they come in 1st or 15th. A good driver is a good driver and look impressive wherever the car is at, wherever the team is at, wherever they are in the race.
Vettel cruised around in by far the best car, in not the best car he looks positively awkward for the majority of the year. he didn't show great pace, he wasn't competitive with his team mate and he didn't look like a potential champion. Based on the actual driving this year if Vettel was actually a rookie alongside Ricciardo you would only say one looked a world class driver.
Alonso did get marginally beaten by Hamilton but Hamilton is one of the best drivers in F1 also, personally I think he's better than Alonso but it's pretty damn close either way.
Vettel won however many races he did and very rarely looked awesome. Hamilton/Alonso could look awesome coming in 10th.
Excluding races where either Vet or Riccy DNF'd or DSQ'd, Ricciardo has beaten Vettel 10 to 3. Hard to say who won in qualifying as you've got the bogus qualifying for Vettel, but both cars have had issues in qualifying mostly with losing power and other weird issues. It stands as 10 to 8 in Ricciardo's favour but it is fairly close on that front. But again it suggests in race Ricciardo is the stronger racer by quite some distance.
Funnily enough, again ignoring when either driver didn't finish for any reason, the 3 times Vettel beat Riccy was when Riccy qualified ahead of him, and 6 of the 10 Riccy beat Vettel was when Vettel out qualified Riccy.... qualifying has been close and really not been a deciding factor in one finishing ahead of the other driver.
IN the same circumstances for Rosberg vs Hamilton, Rosberg has only beaten Hamilton when he's outqualified him, Hamilton has beaten Rosberg 4 times when starting the race behind him, he's finished ahead of him on every occasion he's started ahead of him(same situation as above, counting races where both finish).
people are saying Vettel is meh because he's been beaten quite significantly by Ricciardo. Alonso was not beaten so hard by Hamilton, it was effectively dead even on 109. If Vettel was close and just having a bit of bad luck would be one thing, but he doesn't look a patch on Ricciardo this year. Even the points gap there is, a DSQ for Ricciardo which would have netted him 18 points, and multiple races where Ricciardo gets stuck behind a Williams while Vettel isn't stuck behind anyone. IE Ricciardo had the pace/driving to go further but the car wasn't good enough, Vettel hasn't shown that pace or driving skill, most races not looking like he could do much better. Effectively I'd say Ricciardo has looked limited by the car this year, the car looks like it's limited by Vettel though.
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I'd reply, but Drunkenmaster pretty much got this.
No way is hamilton better than alonso. I watched the 2010 abu dhabi gp tonight... forgot that only petrov was in the way of title #3 for fred... then look at 2012 and how unlucky he was to lose potentially world title #4 after sebs first lap shennanigans. If alonso had 4 titles, which ive just proved he was whiskers away from, then we would be lauding him up there with senna prost schumi and co.
And smr has just explained why the view that Vettel simply walked easily to 4 titles is rubbish. 2 of his titles went right down to the wire with Alonso (and others). There's this false assumption that he had a world beating car for 4 years, when in reality if you look into it, he had a world beating car for only 1 and a half seasons of the 4 seasons in which he won the championship.
Vettel has competed in 7 full seasons in F1, and this is the first in which he hasn't won a race (yet). He's won the title 4 times out of 7, and been in the championship fight 5 times out of 7.
Yea he's had a bad year this year. He's admitted he isn't getting on with the style required for this years cars, and he's also had a pile of bad luck. Ricciardo has definitely outshon him this year. But suggesting that the previous 6 years mean nothing because he had one bad year is rather absurd. Vettel is somehwere in the top 5 or so most successful drivers of all time, you don't do that by accident.
Alonso has won nothing for 8 years, yet people still insist on labelling him the best driver in F1. We were only about 3 races into 2014 before people started claiming the 4 time WDC Vettel was rubbish. The mind boggles.
A lot of people don't like Vettel (i'm not a fan myself), people were looking for a reason to discount him when he was winning, now he isn't and having a bad year people are using it to justify what they were saying for the past 4 years, it's quite the shame.
Many people never used to like Schumacher when he was winning so much and many people never used to like Alonso when he was winning... who knows it may only take a few years of Vettel dragging a crap car around for people to start liking him
Many people never used to like Schumacher when he was winning so much and many people never used to like Alonso when he was winning... who knows it may only take a few years of Vettel dragging a crap car around for people to start liking him
I watched those seasons, thanks, I don't need you to tell me what happened in them
No-one's suggesting that Adrian Newey won four titles by accident. Neither am I suggesting that the last six years mean nothing, only that more information helps understand how good Vettel really is.
Soldato
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Yet before this year Ricciardo was expected to be another Webber at best - everyone was saying he was the safe choice, someone to collect a few points for the team, but not threaten the team leader over a season. He had done absolutely nothing to suggest he was going to beat Vettel, let alone trounce him.
So using more information, that makes Webber a truly awful driver (I mean, he couldn't even beat Vettel). Which makes Rosberg poor (Webber had the beating of him at Williams), Rosberg isn't quite as good as Hamilton, but good enough to drag Hamilton down to Webber's level. Hamilton was roughly the equal of Alonso in their season together, but Alonso is judged to be one of the best of all time. So in conclusion that makes Ricciardo probably the best driver to have walked the earth or any other planet.
It's got nothing to do with Vettel having other priorities (shown in pre-season), the engine regulations and removal of EBD not suiting him or anything. No, Ricciardo is just a God.
Christ, if all we used was data...
So using more information, that makes Webber a truly awful driver (I mean, he couldn't even beat Vettel). Which makes Rosberg poor (Webber had the beating of him at Williams), Rosberg isn't quite as good as Hamilton, but good enough to drag Hamilton down to Webber's level. Hamilton was roughly the equal of Alonso in their season together, but Alonso is judged to be one of the best of all time. So in conclusion that makes Ricciardo probably the best driver to have walked the earth or any other planet.
It's got nothing to do with Vettel having other priorities (shown in pre-season), the engine regulations and removal of EBD not suiting him or anything. No, Ricciardo is just a God.
Christ, if all we used was data...
Yet you've made your mind up based on less than 1 season...
That's quite a leap.
I thought Vettel was overrated before - based on the last half dozen seasons - and now I think he was overrated more than I did before. If he impresses next season I'll update my view again.