F1 Testing 2012 - Week 3, Barcelona

Skeeter said:
The rules are written around testing a stationary car, and the Red Bull passes those tests. .
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Not true at all - there are sections in there (which mention x mm's above track at all times) which do not mention anything about measiring stationary



Skeeter said:
especially when in this case the rules go down to fractions of mm's. Yes we all know the weight tests don't represent the real world conditions, but short of taking a full scale wind tunnel to each track, what can the FIA do?

.
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thisis where your theory breaks down because its down to mm, not fractions of mm - but even so, it is entirely possible to work out the distances involved, its not even particularly complex maths
 

Go have a read. All of 3.7 defining where bodywork should be is all in relation to the reference plane, not the ground. And 3.17 around flexibility is all in relation to positioning of specific weights in specific positions.

That is the exact wording of the regulations, and Red Bull passes them all.

The problem is people have mashed all this together into their heads into some regulations that don't actually exist, and then claimed Red Bull are breaking them.
 
there are older parts of the rules that mention front wings never being below x height off the track also

its still an artificial test, a more realistic one could easily be done in a neautral wind tunnel which would reflect real racing circumstances much more closely than a fixed weight placed anywhere

as I have clearly stipulated many times, imo its the fia at fault not rbr
 
FrankJH said:
there are older parts of the rules that mention front wings never being below x height off the track also

its still an artificial test, a more realistic one could easily be done in a neautral wind tunnel which would reflect real racing circumstances much more closely than a fixed weight placed anywhere

as I have clearly stipulated many times, imo its the fia at fault not rbr
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Please point out the article number in the 2012 regulations that Red Bull are breaking.
 
Skeeter said:
Please point out the article number in the 2012 regulations that Red Bull are breaking.
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It's about the fia not having rules for new parts of the car.
They wait till someone complains then they may do something about it. I think I am right in saying
that none of the top teams had thier car full checked last year.
Buy fully checked I mean a complete strip down to see if they have broken any rules. The fia should take a look at nascar, they have nearly 100 rules on the brakes alone.

edit= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCAR_rules_and_regulations#Technical_requirements_and_inspection

"NASCAR will inspect every car before a race to ensure that this car does not violate any rule of its series"
"After the race, the top 5 finishers, the first car out of the race not involved in an accident, and another random car will be reinspected"
 
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The FIA do random checks. I don't know how detailed they are but they are often enough for teams to ensure their cars are legal.

But thats beside the point. Frank is accusing Red Bull of braking the rules, and the FIA of allowing Red Bull to brake the rules, which is not the case.

The rules are what is within the regulation documents. The problem is the missrepriesentation and misscommunication of those rules by people all over the place (fans online, pundits on TV, comentators, etc) which has created a missunderstanding in peoples heads.

The rules are the rules, and the Red Bull passes the rules. Yes they may then be doing something that goes against what the rules are trying to prevent, but to the letter of the rules they are legal.

The FIA have toughened up the rules to reduce what is happening, but in terms of what is actually possible in relation to at the track testing, they have done all they can.

Bottom line, there is not a rule that states "the wing cannot flex to within a certain distance from the road". But all the talk about flexi wings has made people think there is, and that Red Bull are therefore somehow being allowed to brake it.
 
Skeeter said:
Bottom line, there is not a rule that states "the wing cannot flex to within a certain distance from the road". But all the talk about flexi wings has made people think there is, and that Red Bull are therefore somehow being allowed to brake it.
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Well Ferrari took off their front wing when it was hitting the track because the fia would consider that dangerous.

I don't think you get it, the fia are using tests from 10 years back for the front wings of today.
The only way to test the flex of the wing is to do a straight line test at 190mph then you would see it flexing.
Do you not remember rb saying "we have not got a flexi wing" but we all could see it?
Anyway the fia make the rules up as they go along and always have.
 
Sigh, I've had this argument over and over again and it never seems to change.

Red Bull have not broken any rules. The FIA have done all they can to impose the rules they want. The situation has been clarified. End of.

The teams have all moved on, I just wish the bitter fans would too.
 
yes they have 'beaten' the rules and good for them, but the fia have banned things on the basis of video/pics havent they? the ferrari rear flex wing.

i havent had a problem with the flexi wing since they upped the testing on them and they still passed, i see it as an innovation just like this supposed w duct front wing (really interested in how that works out) and i hope there are several more innovations throughout the field
 
Mr Men said:
Yes Ferrari flexing wings were banned on video evidence, even though they passed the FIA tests.
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Which one? I remember the front wing being picked up on video separating from the nose, and therefore being banned under the part of the regulations that stipulate bodywork must be firmly attached.

And the little wings people developed that went over the nose were seen to flex (McLaren and Renault I think, although possibly other teams too), but again were banned (well, enforced supporting things) through the implementation of a rule (requiring said supporting things), rather than just on the grounds of the video evidence alone.

Must have missed the rear wing one? Got any details?
 
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Sheesh seems people can't google for themselves round this forum and need everything spoonfed to them :)

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/01/25/banned-flexi-wings/

Flexi-wing crisis 2 – 2006

Since then the issue of flexi-wings has occasionally resurfaced, but with the degrees and manner of flexes involved becoming more subtle.

This became apparent last year when eight teams threatened to protest Ferrari’s wings at the Malaysian Grand Prix after television footage revealed both the rear and front wings were flexing.

Following the race both McLaren and BMW were instructed by the FIA to revise their wings. Ferrari were not, but brought new wings to the following race anyway insisting they were for improved performance. Close inspection suggested the mountings of the offending wings at the front of the car had been strengthened.
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