F1 Testing 2012 - Week 3, Barcelona
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Soldato
That would be far too simple for them.
its not the visible flexing per se, its the distance to the ground while racing
Im also suggesting that its the way the FIA have designed to test the rules which is wrong, not that any part is illeagal (which is totally different)
The only way the FIA can properly test, and therefore regulate the wings, would be to put full sized wings in a full sized wind tunnel. And until someone develops one that can be shipped to each track, I think they have to make do with the weight tests
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FIA representative at the team's (or any) wind tunnel too simple a solution?
(after all the team HAVE to test the full size version before risking racing it)
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How would that work over kerbs though? (To Duke)
For Frank, your once again referring to rules around height above the road that don't exist. The FIAs rules allow the wings to flex a bit. The Red Bull wings flex a bit. It's as simple as that.
Where has this idea that a flexing wing is bad come from anyway? Is it just because its on the Red Bull, and people are bored of them winning? It's that same confusing thing again where different clever responses to the regulations get different reactions.
Flexi wing - OMG their cheats!
Double diffused - ha, serves the FIA right, well done Ross Brawn.
F duct - well done to whoever invented that, its genious.
Lotus reactive ride height - the FIA are Satan for banning it.
EBDs (last year) - another genius idea by Newey.
EBDs now - OMG how have the FIA not managed to ban this properly!
I just don't get it?
For Frank, your once again referring to rules around height above the road that don't exist. The FIAs rules allow the wings to flex a bit. The Red Bull wings flex a bit. It's as simple as that.
Where has this idea that a flexing wing is bad come from anyway? Is it just because its on the Red Bull, and people are bored of them winning? It's that same confusing thing again where different clever responses to the regulations get different reactions.
Flexi wing - OMG their cheats!
Double diffused - ha, serves the FIA right, well done Ross Brawn.
F duct - well done to whoever invented that, its genious.
Lotus reactive ride height - the FIA are Satan for banning it.
EBDs (last year) - another genius idea by Newey.
EBDs now - OMG how have the FIA not managed to ban this properly!
I just don't get it?
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Soldato
If that's in response to Duke ride height sensor Skeeter, then they'd just match it against the telemetry?
The flexing takes place at high speed, which is where you'd see it on the data.
The flexing takes place at high speed, which is where you'd see it on the data.
They say a maximum amount of flex at any point. This is the issue. Not that I care anymore. Fia have made it clear as long as it passes testing and doesn't hit the floor it's a non issue. Just remove that rule though. What's the point if they aren't going to stick to it.
Edit - actually they may of removed it, quick skim and I can't see it in there.
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How many millions of times did I state that RBR were not breaking the rules - it was the FIA not using the correct methodology to test that was the problem? Yet continually I get accused of saying RBR broke the rules.
As for going through the 2012 rules, its impossible to undestand them in the first place (referencing this plane, and blah blah blah) , I do know however that when the original flexi wing turned up a few seasons ago the specific rule was posted on here detailing x height above the track (for all I know the FIA have completely re-written that part of the rules in the intervening time, but it was definitely there originally)
you must have missed it in your quick skim
I do recall in my similar glance it mentioning something about a maximum amount of flex
As for going through the 2012 rules, its impossible to undestand them in the first place (referencing this plane, and blah blah blah) , I do know however that when the original flexi wing turned up a few seasons ago the specific rule was posted on here detailing x height above the track (for all I know the FIA have completely re-written that part of the rules in the intervening time, but it was definitely there originally)
you must have missed it in your quick skim
I do recall in my similar glance it mentioning something about a maximum amount of flex20mm under 1000N of load applied to the end if the wing.
And Glaucus, they are sticking to the rules as written
The other years, there was a maximum deflection at any point in the race, not the fia tests, as such they weren't sticking or enforcing the rules.
But I don't won't to get into this argument again.
You can't that's the problem, it was still in there.
Just checked the 2008 regs, can't see anything.
Pretty much all measurements are in relation to the reference plane though, which isn't the same as height from the ground. Increasing the rake (Red Bull style) will drop the front wing closer to the road without affecting its relation to the reference plane, for example.
Pretty much all measurements are in relation to the reference plane though, which isn't the same as height from the ground. Increasing the rake (Red Bull style) will drop the front wing closer to the road without affecting its relation to the reference plane, for example.
Couple of issues with that. How do you eliminate vibration, kerb hopping, dive under braking, roll during cornering etc?
Main problem though, is that there is no limit for the height of the wing from the ground. Everything is related to the reference plane which is different from car to car, and will be affected by rake, spring stiffness (ie one team may run a generally lower height but stiffer springs so the car doesn't move as much) suspension design and a multitude of other factors.
The rules do state that all bodywork fixed to the sprung parts of the car must be rigid, and so covers all bodywork flex including the wings.
There are specific regulations covering wing flex that over rule the general rigid bodywork regulations. They have to due to the large distance from the mounting points to the tips of the wings.
And your spot on about the reference plane. There are no regulations around bodywork height from the road. People just think there is as in an effort to explain the regulations in an easy to understand way, the broadcasters and journalists have actually changed their meaning to something slightly different, and ultimately incorrect.
And your spot on about the reference plane. There are no regulations around bodywork height from the road. People just think there is as in an effort to explain the regulations in an easy to understand way, the broadcasters and journalists have actually changed their meaning to something slightly different, and ultimately incorrect.
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And how do you cope with a wing fabricated on a Friday and delivered to the circuit for Saturday FP3? The tests as currently specified are designed so the cars can be tested at the circuit on during the race weekend.
Teams don't do much full size testing, they are limited by the rules. Most is done on scale models, though they can trade off test days for full size wind tunnel testing, plus a balance of CFD and tunnel time.
Flexi wings - interesting as they contravene the rigid bodywork rule, but are allowed by the 'clarification' of allowed for displacement vs applied point load.
F-Duct - very clever interpretation of the then current rules where the driver isn't considered part of the chassis.
Double diffuser - Probably would have been banned if McLaren had turned up with one instead of the born from the ashes of Honda and saved at the last minute by Brawn team.
Lotus reactive ride height - after the mass damper being banned not sure how they thought something else which controlled the ride height for aero benefit would be allowed.
EBDs - old idea, revisited when engine mapping allowed them to operate through all phases of a corner without affecting the stability.
EBDs this year - Not every team is blowing the edges of the diffuser. Ferrari certainly weren't with their initial exhaust or the final iteration. Merc appear to be blowing the mini diffuser under the crash structure, and RBR have changed their ideas following the Sauber. Only McL appear to be blowing the edges as with last years cars. As for the FIA banning it, the teams have far greater resources to engineer around the rules than the FIA have in trying to pre-empt the teams being clever.
The only things I can think of in the past are the mid season introduction of the tyre contact width test after the race had finished (after Ferrari complained that Michelin had interpreted the rules in a better way and it was unfair) and the tolerance allowed on heat affected parts which may grow during the race.
Re: Franks suggestion of having the FIA check at the factory, nothing on an F1 car needs to be legal until it hits a track for FP1 at a race weekend. Therefore the FIA need to be able to test to enforce the regulations at the race track.
Soldato
Lol at some of the guys on here thinking that they know better than the FIA technical team on how to check and enforce the rules.