***FIFA11 PS3 10v10 Club***

Nickg said:
or when the keeper has the ball and no one is calling (especially from deadballs) my player has crap heading but id rather call the ball to me and accept that i might not win it, rather than let the cpu pass the ball to the guy on the edge of the box who gets tackled instantly and provides them with a chance to score.
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We learnt in FIFA 10 to call for the ball on FKs as the CPU does tend to pass to nearest player, for goal kicks though normally the default kick is to furthest ST - corners are still a mystery to me. I never ask for it from GK because my covering CB is usually far taller/stronger, but if it comes in my direction Ill try and contest. When I play 1v1 I rarely do whack it long from a GK - just find it too 50/50...
Nickg said:
....but othertimes, i see the cpu doing far too much, and i think well id rather i try and take a pass and deal with losing it than just watching the cpu run into a roadblock again.
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I dont get this - why is this better? Doesnt it just lead to you losing the ball and the opposition breaking with their players in front of them rather than the CPU losing it leading to an isolated attacker against our defence/GK? I dont think being less wrong is that helpful, when you are only asking for the ball to delay us losing the ball. To me it goes back to the situation that people arent doing x requests correctly because there will be some people in space rightly asking for it in addition to you asking for it. I dont tend to think that there are regular points where no ones asking for the ball at the same time, more the opposite...
Nickg said:
but then othertimes even when theres a chance of a good pass people are delaying or doing their own thing on the ball, and this makes it incredibly difficult to time a run forward, as you dont know if they are going to release it, or stall for 2 secs forcing you offside or to stop your run.
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I think Ive covered this already - early (simple) passes where the opposition arent in formation leads to better chances than you running to a point or passing enough players before you decide you want to pass which might mean someones had to kill their run or had run offside...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
While I remember can people stop asking for it from the goal kick if you havent already realised that the GK kicks it short every time you ask for it, when I was CAM I kept getting the goal kick because my ST was repeatedly asking for it while they were running up the pitch to their position. When you ask for an x request the GK and invariably CPU player will pass to where you pressed it, not to where you are seconds after you asked for it.
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problem here is Ps2udo, if you dont ask for it and he kicks it to the edge of the area? surely its better for him to kick it to the half way line and you have to figh for it, rather than he just kicks it to one of the centre halfs (worst case scenario) or randomly picks an unwitting VP out there who hasnt asked for it, but the ball gets dumped near them anyway making it look like they called for it.

a larger than Jancker man up front calling these in and then dropping 5 feet deeper to win the ball solves that straight away.

with us overloading the CPU with x requests and just being in crap places to ask for the ball its not really surprising that the CPU does as badly as it has. It makes sense that if you are ANY you set your VP as a defensive player to help yourself out...
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i really dont think this is as common as you might think. whats more common is for no one to call the ball and the defender to just meander 5 yards up the pitch and lose the ball himself. the cpu has no problem passing, it just doesnt know what to do if you dont pass...

i watched this time and time again yesterday - thinking - someone HAS to call for a pass here...surely...? oh nope? too busy making superb runs into spaces where they will never get the ball.

I dont get this - why is this better? Doesnt it just lead to you losing the ball and the opposition breaking with their players in front of them rather than the CPU losing it leading to an isolated attacker against our defence/GK? I dont think being less wrong is that helpful, when you are only asking for the ball to delay us losing the ball. To me it goes back to the situation that people arent doing x requests correctly because there will be some people in space rightly asking for it in addition to you asking for it. I dont tend to think that there are regular points where no ones asking for the ball at the same time, more the opposite...
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mmm...its better because the chance of cpu losing the ball is very very high, proably over 50%. if you call for the ball, and you are in direct line to recieve it, the chance of losing the ball is under 50% (figures are anecdotal). and if the CPU loses the ball chances are there is no one else behind them, it will be between the 18 yard box and the half way line but generally closer to the box. if you can at least get the ball to or past the half way line and do lose it, well at least the opponent isnt right on the doorstep and able to bang it quickly?

to the bit in bold at the end:

it happened over and over to the point i was like even saying in chat someone just call for the ball, the cpu was making a pass to itself and tryiong to dribble to the half way line! someone HAS to take responsibility well before it comes to that, especially off a deadball (if no one calls for it long). i did some basic experimentation in the last couple of games as a mid and striker to actively not call myself - to see who was calling for the ball and on a vast majority of cases no one was, so i had to start myself.
 
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Kill use more paragraphs!
K1LLSW1TCH said:
What annoys me the most though is that it seems that everyone is still stuck in Fifa 10 mode, it's truly terrible at times, I watch the same people do the same things over and over and there's only so much of that you can sit through without becoming annoyed, I sat through it for 6 hours yesterday and it was probably the most boring 6 hours I've had this year. And I've been to church. Stop the stupid L1 and triangle through balls, they DO NOT WORK. Stop delaying your passes in the hopes of drawing a defender to you and creating a bit of space because 99 times out of 100 the defender just sticks a leg out and intercepts it, or you get "lag".
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Unfortunately I tend to do those kind of passes, though I honestly have tried to reduce the lobbed through balls, theres just so little reason to do them from halfway line to STs. They are far more useful across the width when you want a ST to run onto them since they dont have the velocity of cross or the direction of the square pass (you cant place square passes into space). Or the dink from outside the box or ones to go over the keeper to the back post (Skip does these well). I wouldnt say my general play is like FIFA 10, but once I have some space and time I tend to think I put in an useful pass...
K1LLSW1TCH said:
I won't name anybody because last time I did people just get iffy with me for it, but last night there were so many opportunities for person X to pass to me but instead they decided carry on running until they eventually just ran needlessly into a defender, then blamed lag, despite the lag not contributing the entire build up of the move, especially the dribbling and turning. The point is that nobody wants to play a 1 touch passing game, they just want to get the ball, turn and then press L1 triangle and that's fine if it works, but most of the time it doesn't work, there's no point apologising for a mistake if you don't even intend to try anything different the next time, or the time after that. Also, every game I played up front I had bugger all chances, I went through that one game as a left striker and I played in the midfield, at left back, in the centre, behind the midfielders holding, everywhere... I had one shot all game in the 90th minute which ended up in the net, it went down the same flank constantly and there were way too many instance of "oh **** I'm going to lose the ball, quickly pass to anybody. AWW NO ****ING LAG!". If that is what it is going to be like every single night then I'm just going to play much less than I do now.
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As I said last night, all I can suggest is a private chat with the people involved with an impartial third party to ensure the chat itself is constructive.
K1LLSW1TCH said:
Also, when in the crossing zone, what the hell is the point in going backwards, forwards, backwards and then trying to cross it in on what will be your weaker foot? There is no point whatsoever it's just an opportunity to showboat which is fine if we are 2 or 3-0 up, I'll even do it myself if we are leading, but when it's 0-0 or we are losing please don't do any showboating it's absolutely pointless and most of you guys are crap at it anyway.
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Agreed - when you are running to do the cross you do have time to look up and see if the cross is on, if it is, do it first time and not while running (reduces spin and accuracy). If its not on then you can do a simple pass to a player on edge of box - the whole turning back on yourself just makes it so difficult as a ST to stay onside for the cross and gives time to be marked - the only EVER time to do it is when you are waiting for STs to get in the box, but thats such a rare situation...
One more thing, stop getting the CPU to shoot from the edge of the box, it absolutely wastes a chance which one of us might have been able to work into the box or cross it in and create something dangerous at least. If you can't control when you press a button on the pad then you shouldn't even be playing games.
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Ive always been terrible for this - but really no one should be pressing circle as AFAIK only the Captain needs to be and is the only one that influences the CPU in defence...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Nickg said:
problem here is Ps2udo, if you dont ask for it and he kicks it to the edge of the area? surely its better for him to kick it to the half way line and you have to figh for it, rather than he just kicks it to one of the centre halfs (worst case scenario) or randomly picks an unwitting VP out there who hasnt asked for it, but the ball gets dumped near them anyway making it look like they called for it.

a larger than Jancker man up front calling these in and then dropping 5 feet deeper to win the ball solves that straight away.
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Try it on offline game with your VP - the GK tends to kick it to ST as a default to no button press, rather than short passes to defence IME. Even if the CPU passes it short cant a midfield VP cover that possibility? I agree though when its to a CB they are normally marked (FIFA 11 AI seems to do this a lot more)

Having an overly tall ST as I said to Jojo a while back makes them pretty much useless for speed, stamina and ball control. The main assets we all want to ensure are as good as possible...
Nickg said:
i really dont think this is as common as you might think. whats more common is for no one to call the ball and the defender to just meander 5 yards up the pitch and lose the ball himself. the cpu has no problem passing, it just doesnt know what to do if you dont pass...

i watched this time and time again yesterday - thinking - someone HAS to call for a pass here...surely...? oh nope? too busy making superb runs into spaces where they will never get the ball.
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It definitely is when there are particular players on - too many people have mentioned the x request issue for me to be making it up and Ive spent way too many games not asking for it because Ive given up ever getting it. Perhaps thats the issue - Im so used to not ever getting the ball from the CPU that Ive stopped asking, which would explain your thought. If you hear me on comms you would hear me talking to the CPU to tell it where to pass to sometimes...
Nickg said:
mmm...its better because the chance of cpu losing the ball is very very high, proably over 50%. if you call for the ball, and you are in direct line to recieve it, the chance of losing the ball is under 50% (figures are anecdotal). and if the CPU loses the ball chances are there is no one else behind them, it will be between the 18 yard box and the half way line but generally closer to the box. if you can at least get the ball to or past the half way line and do lose it, well at least the opponent isnt right on the doorstep and able to bang it quickly?
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I know you are right but the greyness of the difference is so little I wouldnt say its a much better decision. Though the opposition may be nearer the goal the GKs have shown time and time again that 1v1s with them are far harder than FIFA 10. What still is as easy are cutback/rebound goals where you have player support and why I argued that getting the ball lost in midfield with their STs already well placed in our self-admitted poor CPU defence seems more dangerous. But its not black and white...
Nickg said:
to the bit in bold at the end:

it happened over and over to the point i was like even saying in chat someone just call for the ball, the cpu was making a pass to itself and tryiong to dribble to the half way line! someone HAS to take responsibility well before it comes to that, especially off a deadball (if no one calls for it long). i did some basic experimentation in the last couple of games as a mid and striker to actively not call myself - to see who was calling for the ball and on a vast majority of cases no one was, so i had to start myself.
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Thats where the midfield have to take initiative - I do think x requests should be obvious, I dont ask for it when Im being marked even if Im nearest the ball as I see little point if Im just going to concede possession albeit one pass later. Your points do illuminate the fact that maybe we arent getting into space where we can accept the ball from the CPU to feel that we arent going to lose it and that only a small number of people actually over ask for the ball...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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Try it on offline game with your VP - the GK tends to kick it to ST as a default to no button press, rather than short passes to defence IME. Even if the CPU passes it short cant a midfield VP cover that possibility? I agree though when its to a CB they are normally marked (FIFA 11 AI seems to do this a lot more)

Having an overly tall ST as I said to Jojo a while back makes them pretty much useless for speed, stamina and ball control. The main assets we all want to ensure are as good as possible...
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yea i know what your saying but we do play width and it does provide that target both from the keeper and in their box too. im thinking jan koller style here.

It definitely is when there are particular players on - too many people have mentioned the x request issue for me to be making it up and Ive spent way too many games not asking for it because Ive given up ever getting it. Perhaps thats the issue - Im so used to not ever getting the ball from the CPU that Ive stopped asking
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well everyone calls for the ball when the cpu is already on the half way line or when your in their half and we have about 5 players about to race away and score.

its people asking for the ball when the cpu gets it on the 18 yard box we seem to struggle with. its all well going forward but the bit we are missing is the getting the ball from the back to the midfield. as i said, i watched in some matches and the pure yardage the CPU Def must have made with the ball was astounding in some situations. ofc he just got tackled in others but it made me see it as an issue.
 
Good posts Poly, sorry for my long paragraphs, I'm only on a 13" screen so I thought they wouldn't be as long if you guys were viewing them on a larger screen, I will break them down to 4 or 5 lines instead of like 8.

My main bugbears are:

People turning in the crossing zone, then turning back.
Asking for the ball from the CPU when in a bad position.
Not looking where your team mates are before you call for a pass.
Shooting from silly ranges when we are drawing or down. (If we are 2 up it's fine)
Showboating/trying to run past every man. (Bap you are a **** for this)
Not looking for simple pass instead of the running down the wing option.

That's it really for the moment, I don't care if we lose and we've played well, but it annoys me when we play like crap and consistently lose against teams that we could easily have beaten. Everyone needs to be more aware of what is going on around them and just because you are on the edge of the box does not mean you cannot pass backwards or sideways, the ball does not always have to go forwards to make progress. Make the pitch as wide as you can and stretch the opposition, mix short and long passes, above all just don't be predictable. I may not be the best but at least I know and accept when I'm playing crap and don't try and blame it on other factors such as lag.
 
Im honestly am surprised that people think we dont ask x request enough - its just not something thats ever entered my head as, as youve said, once the VPs have it usually it pretty well played, but getting it out of CPU defence Ive always felt too many people ask for it at the same time confusing the CPU (in FIFA 10 Club it was far easier to score on a fast counter attack because the ball travelled much further, faster and more accurately in a pass).

I dont know what the AI is supposed to do when more than one person asks for it but I wouldnt be half surprised if one request negates the other, which would then lead the CPU to keep the ball for longer. Any suppositions?

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
The frozen screen bug though is beyond annoying. It wasnt in 10 so why is it in 11? 4 times in one half alone i got it yesterday.

But if im getting lag (sluggish and delays on player reacting etc) then i would probably wait 10 or so minutes game time to see if it improves if it doesnt then i'd quit.

weirdly enough....the frozen screen thing can help if you are laggy. Ive had games where itd be laggy but as soon as i got a frozen screen bug it would be fine. (after the 5 seconds delay ofc)


but I wouldnt be half surprised if one request negates the other, which would then lead the CPU to keep the ball for longer. Any suppositions?
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first player to request the ball i think. But yeah sometimes we do leave it to the cpu and the cpu loses it in defence.



Killswitch said:
People turning in the crossing zone, then turning back
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The rest i agree with but i dont get this? Isnt it realistic? I see this all the time on MOTD. Adam Johnson does it all the time for city. If your VP is fast you can outmanouevre the defender so you can put a cross in. You go one way then quick change to other way and bam cross ball.
 
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Surfer said:
first player to request the ball i think. But yeah sometimes we do leave it to the cpu and the cpu loses it in defence.
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If it was that then we wouldnt have an issue, but Ive seen the CPU do some silly manoeuvres just to get a pass off and I cant think the AI is capable of ignoring requests...
Surfer said:
The rest i agree with but i dont get this? Isnt it realistic? I see this all the time on MOTD. Adam Johnson does it all the time for city. If your VP is fast you can outmanouevre the defender so you can put a cross in. You go one way then quick change to other way and bam cross ball.
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Because if you believe the physics engine rarely are you going to outjump/muscle a defender from a standing start as a ST, its only unless you have that run up you get that chance. That timed run up is impossible if you dont know when the player is going to cross and if its not in the first instance and youve gone, youre already offside and have little time to get back on and attempt another run up...

I dont see where there should be a situation where players are in the box to delay a cross by doing the turnback...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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I dont see where there should be a situation where players are in the box to delay a cross by doing the turnback...
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well i had a couple of situations like this...

if the choice is cross knowing your going to hit the defender in front of you, oir u can cut back.. well its time to cut back

if u are well clear of the defenders then it should be early and quick. if u know its going to hit your defender right in front of u, sometimes u have no choice but ti meander a little bit before trying to delivery
 
K1LLSW1TCH said:
It's not just the any though, it's people playing like utter retards. Nobody looks for a short ball for example when on the wing, they will just continue to dribble all the way to the touch line and then put a cross in, regardless of if there is a short x opportunity to cut in and play a ground ball short of the box. Currently our plan is midfielder picks the ball up, passes it to winger who just blindly runs entire length of the pitch and puts a cross in, OR, player picks it up in midfield, doesn't bother to look around to other midfielders, just press L1 and triangle over the top and either their keeper gets it or their defenders just kick it away, cue "sorry" over the mic but then they do the same thing repeatedly all game. If I'm the only one getting annoyed of things like that then please tell me, but from my point of view nobody actually wants to play football they just want to play route one boring crap.
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This highlights one of the conversations I had with NickG about us having tactics - I dont think us playing with a particular style helps - just doing the same mechanical thing which doesnt penetrate seems stupid. Ive never been in favour of crossing, but currently (like part of FIFA 10) my VPs actually an awesome crosser and when I get into those positions I will cross but I still look for the short pass cos I know if I do the same move over and over again it will be picked up by the opposition, I know this cos we work out the same just as easily...

On the flip side though, dont think Im saying lets go and play and hope for the best - what Im really EXPECTING (over time) is people to learn how each person plays, what kind of passes they are capable of and how they prefer to receive the ball. I can tell which people are actually picking this up and who just arent, and when you arent, how is this good for the team? Im currently playing most of my balls to feet just because ground through balls are so awful, but when Im in a move where its demanded and I know my VP can do it I will (mainly down wing)...

Something like just passing to people can be learnt irrelevant where they are playing. There is no harm in telling people 'can you pass this way to me' or to say 'when Im ST Ill stay on the defenders shoulders expecting balls over the top'. Its what Ive done in FIFA Club previously, just like Ive mentioned on more than one occasion what type of crosses Im capable of doing so you know what to look out for...

Its why people like Adam Johnson can do what he does because his STs know him well enough through training to know where to be and when and what hes capable of. How else do you think real teams play well?

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Nickg said:
well i had a couple of situations like this...

if the choice is cross knowing your going to hit the defender in front of you, oir u can cut back.. well its time to cut back

if u are well clear of the defenders then it should be early and quick. if u know its going to hit your defender right in front of u, sometimes u have no choice but ti meander a little bit before trying to delivery
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I would estimate nearly every delayed cross never hits its intended target in Club - so I would rather it go out for a corner and effectively try again than delay it - but thats just our differing playing style...

Slowing down/Skill dribbling to give you space to cross isnt what annoys me but the actual act of getting to wherever you would normal cross and just delaying it for what seems to be no reason just wastes all that energy your team mates have wasted to get into position. Watching someone fake pass while you stand waiting for a cross just seems counter productive..

P.S. Im terrible at corners, does anyone actually like doing them if I ever get chosen Ill change to them (if they arent a ST or something)

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Saint said:
Hi all.

Just wondering if you lot play often? Getting bored of the players that don't pass or have any football sense.

Vp rating is 86
70 goals
92 games avg rating 7.4
CM/CAM

Psn ID is Wardy--
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Saint said:
Sounds like you guys got issues! Can someone invite me to the club? What sort of time are you playing?

Psn ID: Wardy--

Il run your midfield for you :)
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Dont be so cocky :p. Personally VP Ranked stats mean nothing to me as you are playing against a bunch of strangers with limited organisation. Comparing it to club and your achievements in VP Ranked is like comparing Man Utd with Luton Town...

I think this is the first year where I wouldnt recommend people playing VP Ranked to get an idea for Club - the difference in difficultly is just too massive and translating your play styles between the two just doesnt work...

I remember you from FIFA 10 Club - why didnt you play regularly last year?
Saint said:
what time you guys likely to be on tonight then?

whats the name of the club also so I can search it?
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Ill talk to the others - in all honesty because of the new members we have already this year I dont think we are actively looking for more, moreso making sure the unit we have plays better together...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Yes if you could that would be good. You're right I did play last year, had final year of uni so had to stop the fifa pro addiction for a bit :)

ps3ud0 just let me know on here or send me a msg on PSN.

Cheers
 
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ps3ud0 said:
I would estimate nearly every delayed cross never hits its intended target in Club - so I would rather it go out for a corner and effectively try again than delay it - but thats just our differing playing style...

Slowing down/Skill dribbling to give you space to cross isnt what annoys me but the actual act of getting to wherever you would normal cross and just delaying it for what seems to be no reason just wastes all that energy your team mates have wasted to get into position. Watching someone fake pass while you stand waiting for a cross just seems counter productive..

P.S. Im terrible at corners, does anyone actually like doing them if I ever get chosen Ill change to them (if they arent a ST or something)

ps3ud0 :cool:
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yea agree (but in bold) but id still prefer to take a 2nd go at it then throw it into the awaiting defender, cos we dont hardly ever scvore from a corner.

and when ppl see that the cross is coming in a 2nd time they have to get onto the short side of the marker and get to the ball first. or so far far post for the overhit.
 
Couple of specific tips:

Nom - might find it better to be a Midfielder with defensive traits playing as CB rather than a classic CB. Your slide/standing tackle should be high enough to be more than useful but youll still have the ability to pick out a pass. I would also have a go at your midfield outlets as too many times you had to lump it far just to get it out of defence - someone should come deep to allow you to do a simpler ball...

NickG - Watch your positioning relative to other players - seems to get quite congested behind the STs for no reason with multiple people in the same area for no reason. I agree though if you are CAM theres no reason not to get up a wing if its only been covered by a CPU player - just be wary about when you move out of position thats space that needs to be covered. Work with the other midfielders and work together so at least theres someone covering, or that you are aware that if they break you need to get back into position...

Skip - Train up your crosses - you get into good areas but your crosses always seem to be weak/not well directed. Id probably also lay off the ground through balls :p

Kill - Look out for the early ball (which isnt always forward - quite a few people tend to go wide to help get space), I know you are comfortable on the ball but sometimes theres someone in space that might be able to link up a chance or play a wall pass off...

What did people think of the form? It was 5212 for most of the games which seems to neuter a lot of the attacks just because of the amount of defenders that are there (I find it a hard form to play against).

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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