Forgot how bad job searching was :(
- Thread starter Delvis
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Networking
I'm currently a sysadmin for a smaller company so more or less similar to what I do now but the projects would have greater scope and there's obviously better progression, experience and annual increase in pay. By how much though I won't know until next week!
well this guy was on the news here localy a couple of nights ago.
http://menmedia.co.uk/tamesideadvertiser/news/s/1485624_manchester-hotel-offers-post-to-21-year-old-it-expert-rejected-for-1500-jobs?rss=yes
sure he only has a btec in IT. but you'd think somewhere would be happy to take him on even as a part time traineee after he was shown on the tv news and in local print media. but in the end he was offerd part time work in a hotel working behind a bar.
as much as its down to inderviduals to get out there and find jobs for themselves some companies dont do a whole lot to help fill the skills gap they are creating by just banging out idiotic adverts with near min wage pay and high expectations on skills and qualifications.
not just calling IT, but its everywhere. managerial posts paying £15k with promises of bonuses, iv been down this route myself a few years ago and the targets your expected to hit are impossible.
to give you an example i was working in a self storage company and we nearly doubled our revenue in 12 months. it wasnt enough ?! even though or average rent per s*** was higher than it had ever been and we where getting excellent scores on our test shops and branch raids by area managers.
it seems no matter what you hit nowadays your expected to just take home your basic and be happy about it, of course while the company makes a few million in profit.
or in tesco's case billion in profit while abusing government work schemes to get people experience in the work place.
Even though I posted the original complaint, you can probably ignore the experience request if non-commercial experience, via a qualification, or personal projects.
The bigger concern for me is the skill requirements. Personally, I believe it takes a considerable amount of time to become an expert in any of these skills, and whilst you can group a couple, they don't all fit together.
The reality of the situation is knowing any one of these relativity well may put you in good stead of landing the position with the technical people looking for staff, but you'll probably never make it past recruiters or HR departments due to lack of buzzword achievements.
Recruiters are the worst part, HR depts, at least in decent companies, will liaise with the technical managers and usually will pass candidate apps to them but recruiters will only pass on what the person who is dealing with the vacancy thinks is suitable.
Remember my gripe with one recruiter who advertised for a vacancy with "Sequel" experience?
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Jul 2007
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- 5,392
I have to say the whole trainee or level entry positions is doing my gripe in too! I'm noticing it more and more.
That trainee technicain one I made a thread about, found it on the job centre's website. On there they are asking for "The technician will need at extensive experience in rc and steelwork detail on bridges or similar" they also ask for proficancy in autocad, which is fair enough. But if you read everything else, and the actual application on their website it's basically a school leaver with poor qualifications- standard grade or intermediate 2. How they monkeys are they going to have extensive experience. Anyone with extensive experience I would think is well past the trainee phase of their career!
That trainee technicain one I made a thread about, found it on the job centre's website. On there they are asking for "The technician will need at extensive experience in rc and steelwork detail on bridges or similar" they also ask for proficancy in autocad, which is fair enough. But if you read everything else, and the actual application on their website it's basically a school leaver with poor qualifications- standard grade or intermediate 2. How they monkeys are they going to have extensive experience. Anyone with extensive experience I would think is well past the trainee phase of their career!
Well after getting a third in my semester 1 exams, which means im now averaging a 48/49 for my degree i need to desperately pull that up to a 2:2 at least before i leave or im in serious ****
especially after reading that 75% of corp graduate employers scrap anything below a 2:1, 98% below 2:2
especially after reading that 75% of corp graduate employers scrap anything below a 2:1, 98% below 2:2
Things are tough at the moment, but calling him an expert probably doesn't help his case much. He may be, but after a quick college course, I doubt that he is.
I graduated around 2007, I guess, with a BSc related to programming. It was impossible for me to get a job as a programmer, and I spent some time on JSA where they were more than willing to accept that my field was Software Development and I didn't reasonably have to downgrade my expectations to make them happy.
I decided to take £13k a year to work in a call center (pertaining to IT, but alas, it was a call center). Six months experience allowed me to get a better job, with a different company, with the same crappy pay in a semi-proper support role, which helped me become a programmer with the same company shortly after (for the same crappy pay).
I know a ton of folks who "wouldn't lower themselves to that type of work", but most of them haven't done so well since leaving their studies. On the contrary, I used the system to get the experience I required and I'm better for it.
not just calling IT, but its everywhere. managerial posts paying £15k with promises of bonuses, iv been down this route myself a few years ago and the targets your expected to hit are impossible.
to give you an example i was working in a self storage company and we nearly doubled our revenue in 12 months. it wasnt enough ?! even though or average rent per s*** was higher than it had ever been and we where getting excellent scores on our test shops and branch raids by area managers.
it seems no matter what you hit nowadays your expected to just take home your basic and be happy about it, of course while the company makes a few million in profit.
or in tesco's case billion in profit while abusing government work schemes to get people experience in the work place.
Some companies suck and need to be avoided, period. Others are abusing the financial situation to save money. In any event, given the work situation out there does indeed suck, if you can afford it, accept being underpaid in an area that will benefit you experience wise. When things pick up you'll be at the top of the pile. Thats all we can really do, unless you luck out in the mean time.
Recruiters are the worst part, HR depts, at least in decent companies, will liaise with the technical managers and usually will pass candidate apps to them but recruiters will only pass on what the person who is dealing with the vacancy thinks is suitable.
Remember my gripe with one recruiter who advertised for a vacancy with "Sequel" experience?
I hate recruiters. They cloud everything when a 5 minute phone call with the people actually needing the staff would help both parities understand if it was worth while proceeding.
On the other hand, companies don't want to hear from 2000 students with regards to "CLOUD COMPUTING ARCHITECT £40000-£60000), which they inevitably do because 1 class in distributed computing makes them an expert.
It's a crappy situation no matter which way you spin it.
Hm...I've recently been told about a job, and the agency have given me the company details and everything...Whats stopping me going directly?
Naturally the agency may have already passed your details on....But you know
EDIT: I'm not going to do it, but you do wonder sometimes
Naturally the agency may have already passed your details on....But you know
EDIT: I'm not going to do it, but you do wonder sometimes
Last edited:
Hm...I've recently been told about a job, and the agency have given me the company details and everything...Whats stopping me going directly?
Naturally the agency may have already passed your details on....But you know
I'm not sure if you can personally get into legal water going direct, but the company probably has agreements that state they can't hire you without paying the recruitment agency. It's probably not worth the trouble.
It'll most likely be the same as with selling your house and estate agents, if they are the people that introduced you to the role/house then even if you go direct they still are legally entitled to their pound of flesh according to the contract they will have with the employer.
You're fine as long as the recruitment co. don't find out
You're fine as long as the recruitment co. don't find out
Associate
- Joined
- 9 Sep 2011
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- 16
What gets to me isn't the searching or the applying or the endless cover letters I have to write, it's the generic copied-and-pasted-from-Google rejection letter.
Blah blah blah high volume of applications blah blah blah blah move forward with other candidates blah blah blah thank you for your interest blah blah best of luck in your future blah blah
Blah blah blah high volume of applications blah blah blah blah move forward with other candidates blah blah blah thank you for your interest blah blah best of luck in your future blah blah
Be grateful you get rejection letters!
This true, the job I recently got offered asked for offshore/operations experience, knowledge of process simulation software etc (oil & gas industry) etc which I didn't really have. Yet apparently I was the stand out candidate and was offered the job. As long as you're not massively under experienced for a role then I wouldn't worry too much.
Caporegime
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- 13 May 2003
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- 34,520
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- Warwickshire
What factors are most important to you in being happy in your job?
Let's say you've been offered three jobs all at Plcs. I've marked the salaries as low, medium and high, but they're all within a few £k of each other.
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Job 1
A retail chain five minutes drive from your house, you could easily cycle or walk it. Managing two others and in a team of ten, you are responsible for overseeing the integration of the financial reporting of one recently purchased business into the main group and performance commercial analysis during and thereafter. 20 days holiday in your first year, 25 thereafter, anticipate this being a lot of hard work and having to work many hours until things settle down. Potential for advancement: limited but possible. Pay: high.
Job 2
Financial services company in a lovely rural area, but near a great town and with massively impressive on-site facilities, you would manage three people and be responsible for commercial insight, financial reporting, and ad hoc project work. Commute is half an hour by car. 25 days holiday, only a 35 hour standard working week with a culture of 'do what you like, as long as you get the job done'. Potential for internal advancement: medium. Pay: medium.
Job 3
Huge utilities company in an outer city location, you will be a business analyst managing no-one. Commute is 35-40 minutes by car. 25 days holiday. Potential for internal advancement: high. Pay: low.
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Which would you go for? Obviously you have to make a lot of assumptions in answering that; it's more the overall discussion in what is important to you in your job that I'm after, i.e. remuneration vs. opportunity vs. how hard you'll have to work vs. proximity to home etc...
Let's say you've been offered three jobs all at Plcs. I've marked the salaries as low, medium and high, but they're all within a few £k of each other.
-----------------------
Job 1
A retail chain five minutes drive from your house, you could easily cycle or walk it. Managing two others and in a team of ten, you are responsible for overseeing the integration of the financial reporting of one recently purchased business into the main group and performance commercial analysis during and thereafter. 20 days holiday in your first year, 25 thereafter, anticipate this being a lot of hard work and having to work many hours until things settle down. Potential for advancement: limited but possible. Pay: high.
Job 2
Financial services company in a lovely rural area, but near a great town and with massively impressive on-site facilities, you would manage three people and be responsible for commercial insight, financial reporting, and ad hoc project work. Commute is half an hour by car. 25 days holiday, only a 35 hour standard working week with a culture of 'do what you like, as long as you get the job done'. Potential for internal advancement: medium. Pay: medium.
Job 3
Huge utilities company in an outer city location, you will be a business analyst managing no-one. Commute is 35-40 minutes by car. 25 days holiday. Potential for internal advancement: high. Pay: low.
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Which would you go for? Obviously you have to make a lot of assumptions in answering that; it's more the overall discussion in what is important to you in your job that I'm after, i.e. remuneration vs. opportunity vs. how hard you'll have to work vs. proximity to home etc...
I think the opportunities in the first two positions in terms of management and workload would give you more experience to advance your career in the future. The internal advancement opportunities might not be great but people move around that much these days I don't see it as a massive selling point.
Albeit on the information provided, I'd go with option 2.
Albeit on the information provided, I'd go with option 2.
If the salaries are within a few £k of each other I'd be tempted to go with option 3 - if you think you can progress well then it could be short term pain for long term gain (so to speak). Also what about bonuses? Surely the larger company (option 3) is more likely to give a (bigger) bonus?
Salary isn't everything, what about the overall package? Bonuses, pension, share scheme, health insurance etc can all effectively add a few £k to a salary even if it's not money in your pocket and a more long term thing.
Salary isn't everything, what about the overall package? Bonuses, pension, share scheme, health insurance etc can all effectively add a few £k to a salary even if it's not money in your pocket and a more long term thing.