Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

Who are these Russian Nationals

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov. It's literally in my post.

and why did they do it?

Only they can tell us that.

How come their charges do not include manslaughter for the death of a woman? Or was that unrelated?

They might be. The full list of charges has not been released yet. But if they haven't, it could be because the OPCW could not confirm that the poison which killed Dawn Sturgess was from the same batch as the poison used on the Skripals.
 

Shock that Russian Nationals get issued a Passport by the Russian Government... Who else would issue Russian Nationals with a passport?

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov. It's literally in my post.

Only they can tell us that..

I meant: Like what is their job. Are they spies/hitmen/links etc.

Good luck finding out then

Look on Craig Murrays twitter. Questions arising already

Don't take this at face value Evan.
 
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The suspects have been named, now for some finger wagging and tut tutting and continue to welcome Russian dirty money into London
 
How come their charges do not include manslaughter for the death of a woman? Or was that unrelated?
Manslaughter is essentially directly killing somebody without intent (intent = murder), however it's difficult to prosecute them for manslaughter in this instance as they discarded the applicator in a bin and a druggie found it and gave it to his girlfriend who used it and died.

Realistically they set in motion the events that lead to her death but legally, it's not possible to argue voluntary manslaughter which means it would have to be involuntary manslaughter, in which case they can't be prosecuted for gross negligence manslaughter as they have no duty of care to the deceased.

The one option the CPS might have (IMO) is if they argue that disposing a container with a nerve agent in it is a criminal offense (which IIRC it should be), because then her death was caused as a result of an unlawful act and they could be prosecuted for unlawful act manslaughter. However the CPS would then have to convince a jury that a reasonable person could have foreseen that putting the container in the bin could cause harm to the victim (specifically the victim) and that's where the re-gifting of the container causes an issue.
 
What do you mean link and motive? All the details of their travel arrangements, the novichok in their hotel room, etc, etc. Of course Putin and/or the GRU would ever go after a ‘traitor’ *angel smiley*.

Ahh so its trial by media again.

Putin had the traitor locked up, released under amnesty after years and had a daughter who resided in Russia.

Would Russia and the GRU have failed? Why is old evidence looking unlikely eg the door handle
 
Yes, but you could be more specific in terms of what you’re getting at. I’m obviously aware of the reports about the highest concentrations being on the door handle. But what are you saying? I realise your ilk want to avoid specifics...

I'll ignore the slight at the end.

My ideal being how did the extreme concentration get on the door handle. How did a "military grade" amount take so long to afflict the Skripals?

Why is Julias phone call and the family themselves for that matter not speaking publicly? Why did the police draft the Skripal statement. The language therein has been questioned by many.

I simply question. You may not like a- I have to ask... Are you a remainer???
 
I’m not sure if they’ve released specifics about how they think it was applied. But the issue with how fast nerve agents act, what their lethality means, etc, has been covered many times already. I distinctly remember linking to an article by Dan Kaszeta who explained it all. The film The Rock isn’t a documentary you may be surprised to hear.

But the hyperbole was clear:
- Military Grade
- Many times more potent than VX
- Made only in Russia (lie)

Merely washing their hands would have helped a lot. They may have had gloves on when directly touching the handle

We know this for certain?

lethality that’s talked about when nerve agents are discussed is based on it being applied to bare skin and nothing being done to treat them. The medical professionals who treated them were aware of nerve agents and had access to atropine. Etc.

That's good for them. A nerve agent of such potency should surely be dangerous. I remember listening to a guy who wrote a book saying how to make it described it and its potency. It was certainly a poor choice of weapon to kill.
Actually, rather than attempting to remember everything, I’ve found the article for you,

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-a...sting-why-didn-t-the-skripals-die-on-the-spot

Cheers will look


* Removed comment ass it was utter rubbish and adds nothing ***
 
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How did a "military grade" amount take so long to afflict the Skripals?

Explanations of slow acting methodology, rain washed most it off overnight have been offered.

The rain washing most of it off overnight is no longer plausible if the two suspects were indeed the wannabe assassins, given that the MET believes the door handle was targeted by these two suspects moments after 11:58 AM on Sunday.

Slow acting type might be plausible but it does not fit the "Novichok" said to have been invented by the USSR according to descriptions of how fast that one acted, so it'd have to be a new type. Or the descriptions were wrong. Bear in mind the OPCW refuses to name the nerve agent. i.e. They will not say if it's A-232 or A-234 or other. And also bear in mind that the impression that only Russia has such stuff has been proven wrong.

Another problem I have with the delay theory is that both Sergei and Yulia collapsed at the exact same time, some four hours later, without one being able to call for help when they saw the symptoms of the other. Then there are all the logistics issues with the door handle - how many police officers entered and touched the door before the house was sealed*, the Skripals would have touched a lot of things too including Zizzi's door handle yet this was left exposed, the bread given to three young boys by Sergei did not affect them one bit, etc.

* For example, we now know Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey was not the only one who entered the Skripal residence. He was part of a team. Was he the only one who touched the door handle? And he was wearing gloves, so even if the others wore gloves odds are they'd have been affected too.

We're not being told the whole story because some of it is classified, and there are two confirmed DSMA notices out, with chatter about more of these notices ("a flood" it is alleged) since March but nobody has confirmed these others to my knowledge. Neil Basu washed his hands like Pilate today, in his statement, in quoting Theresa May as saying the Russian State was responsible, and then asking for the public's help. For some reason he did not state whether he agreed with May or not. And he didn't mention "GRU" in his statement. In May's statement, we heard that evidence of the suspects being GRU, is "classified". So it would appear they don't intend to prove they are GRU, they will simply have a trial and charge them, and then continue adding "GRU" outside the court, through statements in the Commons, with Parliamentary privilege, and through the media, to set it in the public's minds that they were GRU.

Now some thoughts about what we have been told today:

1. We're being asked to believe that the Russian State asked/greenlighted two of their assassins to travel direct from Moscow to Gatwick, and return from Heathrow direct to Moscow. Not only that, but they were instructed to use their Russian passports instead of fake foreign ID. Interestingly, it is the MET itself who've brought up that they may have other aliases. Perfectly plausible of course, but then why didn't they use a foreign alias? It is also handy for them to bring that up, because if any proof surfaces of these two guys not being GRU, or even Russian, the MET and intelligence services can say "Well, we were led to believe that they were Russian, and had no evidence of otherwise, but remember we did warn they may have other aliases."

2. The nerve agent was discovered on May 4th, in a hotel room. In their hotel room. Yet the hotel was not immediately evacuated and sealed off to undertake a thorough investigation, and to prevent any possible harm to the public. We are then told that only very little traces of it were found (enough to point the finger at the two suspects...) and that all of it was actually cleaned off by the very swabs used to compile samples for testing, so further swabs showed up nothing, therefore no need to invite the OPCW to the hotel, cause "you won't find anything".
 
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Explanations of slow acting methodology, rain washed most it off overnight have been offered.

The rain washing most of it off overnight is no longer plausible if the two suspects were indeed the wannabe assassins, given that the MET believes the door handle was targeted by these two suspects moments after 11:58 AM on Sunday.

Slow acting type might be plausible but it does not fit the "Novichok" said to have been invented by the USSR according to descriptions of how fast that one acted, so it'd have to be a new type. Or the descriptions were wrong. Bear in mind the OPCW refuses to name the nerve agent. i.e. They will not say if it's A-232 or A-234 or other. And also bear in mind that the impression that only Russia has such stuff has been proven wrong.

Another problem I have with the delay theory is that both Sergei and Yulia collapsed at the exact same time, some four hours later, without one being able to call for help when they saw the symptoms of the other. Then there are all the logistics issues with the door handle - how many police officers entered and touched the door before the house was sealed*, the Skripals would have touched a lot of things too including Zizzi's door handle yet this was left exposed, the bread given to three young boys by Sergei did not affect them one bit, etc.

* For example, we now know Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey was not the only one who entered the Skripal residence. He was part of a team. Was he the only one who touched the door handle? And he was wearing gloves, so even if the others wore gloves odds are they'd have been affected too.

We're not being told the whole story because some of it is classified, and there are two confirmed DSMA notices out, with chatter about more of these notices ("a flood" it is alleged) since March but nobody has confirmed these others to my knowledge. Neil Basu washed his hands like Pilate today, in his statement, in quoting Theresa May as saying the Russian State was responsible, and then asking for the public's help. For some reason he did not state whether he agreed with May or not. And he didn't mention "GRU" in his statement. In May's statement, we heard that evidence of the suspects being GRU, is "classified". So it would appear they don't intend to prove they are GRU, they will simply have a trial and charge them, and then continue adding "GRU" outside the court, through statements in the Commons, with Parliamentary privilege, and through the media, to set it in the public's minds that they were GRU.

Now some thoughts about what we have been told today:

1. We're being asked to believe that the Russian State asked/greenlighted two of their assassins to travel direct from Moscow to Heathrow, and return from Heathrow direct to Moscow. Not only that, but they were instructed to use their Russian passports instead of fake foreign ID. Interestingly, it is the MET itself who've brought up that they may have other aliases. Perfectly plausible of course, but then why didn't they use a foreign alias? It is also handy for them to bring that up, because if any proof surfaces of these two guys not being GRU, or even Russian, the MET and intelligence services can say "Well, we were led to believe that they were Russian, and had no evidence of otherwise, but remember we did warn they may have other aliases."

2. The nerve agent was discovered on May 4th, in a hotel room. In their hotel room. Yet the hotel was not immediately evacuated and sealed off to undertake a thorough investigation, and to prevent any possible harm to the public. We are then told that only very little traces of it were found (enough to point the finger at the two suspects...) and that all of it was actually cleaned off by the very swabs used to compile samples for testing, so further swabs showed up nothing, therefore no need to invite the OPCW to the hotel, cause "you won't find anything".

Quoted for truth.

Why don't we shoot spy's any more?

Because we aren't in open warfare. Heck we don't even shoot ISIS fighters here that declare they are here to kill us!
 
Shock that Russian Nationals get issued a Passport by the Russian Government... Who else would issue Russian Nationals with a passport?

Not the Russian Government, for a start, just like we have more than one Passport issuing authority (such as UKPA, FCO, UK IPS, etc). Let's try to use some common sense.
 
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