Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

[ubersonic]

How come it's so slow acting? according to many articles Novichok is 6-8 times more deadly than VX nerve agent and 1 drop can kill up to 10 people (more if inhaled) but in both cases the victims were exposed at an earlier time and place.

Most likely a low dosage/concentration of it and only touched not ingested.

Concentration is a very important yet often overlooked factor with chemicals, I.E a glass of pure Fluoride or Trisodium Phosphate will kill you, but in small amounts they're harmless hence being used as additives in tap water and cereals respectively.

 

[dowie]

How come it's so slow acting? according to many articles Novichok is 6-8 times more deadly than VX nerve agent and 1 drop can kill up to 10 people (more if inhaled) but in both cases the victims were exposed at an earlier time and place.

if you look at some of the earlier pages of the thread there was an article posted somewhere which went through all the factors that could affect how potent it was... including things like people washing their hands after exposure, how much they got exposed to etc..etc..

 

[Malevolence]

Like their home?

Why would they need a park?

Wasn't she living in sheltered accommodation? Those places tend not to allow their druggie and alcoholic residents bring alcohol and drugs onto the premises and generally have routine checks.

 

[XeNoN89]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44883803

So police have identified Russian suspects, what will the local conspiracy nuts come up with this time to continue claiming it wasn't Russia?

 

[Freakbro]

"Fake News" it covers everything they don't want to believe

 

[dowie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44883803

So police have identified Russian suspects, what will the local conspiracy nuts come up with this time to continue claiming it wasn't Russia?

Well perhaps they've had plenty of time to fake the CCTV footage....

No matter the evidence you just know the resident conspiraloons will come up with some "alternative", implausible scenario.

 

[Danny75]

Russia's Ambassador to the UK, Yakovenko, commented on press reports about suspects having been identified, like so:

“These are media reports, unfortunately there are no official statements from the British side. I want to hear from Scotland Yard, from the Foreign Office. Many versions [published] in the newspapers are not confirmed at official level,” Yakovenko told journalists in Moscow.

This is unfortunately the main characteristic in the handling of the Skripal case - unofficial leaks to press by unnamed sources. At any given moment, the government can claim that this or that was not their official position. And let's not forget the hypocrisy in complaining about Russian individuals putting forward several different theories as to what happened, while ignoring all the different theories put forward by British individuals/media orgs.

We also had Russia's Foreign Ministry asking that the alleged grainy CCTV footage and the names of these alleged suspects be released, and that the UK not classify that information as secret, or Russia would treat the matter as the UK harbouring the real criminals.

And we also have Security Minister Ben Wallace rubbishing those press reports:

I think this story belongs in the “ill informed and wild speculation folder”

— Ben Wallace MP (@BWallaceMP) July 19, 2018

https://twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1019906962786484225?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Something that is bound to raise some suspicion, at least according to how the media are reporting it, is that Dawn was still alive when medical staff informed family that they wanted to remove life support, and the family said their goodbyes, life support was removed, and she died an hour later. If this chronology is accurate, why only 8 days for Dawn, when according to the timeline of the story Yulia only awoke from coma after 3 weeks, and Sergei after 4 weeks? Is it good enough reason that the story is she received "ten times the amount of nerve agent"? Surely they'd just invite further criticism that she wasn't being given the same care as the Skripals (a claim made by Dawn's son I believe) by not keeping her on life support for at least an equal amount of time? Strange, and more detailed reasoning should be issued to the public promptly.

 

[StriderX]

It's alright she did heroin, so she was expendable for helping the news have their big story.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44883803

So police have identified Russian suspects, what will the local conspiracy nuts come up with this time to continue claiming it wasn't Russia?

Depends how much RT they've been watching I suspect. Gotta hand it to the russians they're becoming masters of counter propaganda and misinformation.

 

[Dis86]

Depends how much RT they've been watching I suspect. Gotta hand it to the russians they're becoming masters of counter propaganda and misinformation.

No they're not. Everyone with half a brain can see through the bullcrap fountain. Only morons can't.

 

[Tefal]

No they're not. Everyone with half a brain can see through the bullcrap fountain. Only morons can't.

Morons donseem to make up a lot of people though lok

 

[mmj_uk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44883803

So police have identified Russian suspects, what will the local conspiracy nuts come up with this time to continue claiming it wasn't Russia?

They'll probably say that the source is CNN who are not very trustworthy when it comes to facts and truthful journalism, often using anonymous sources to push invented stories.

The smart people will wait for a little thing called evidence which if it is true I'm sure we'll be presented with at some point to prevent another Iraq war style mistake, thankfully Iraq didn't have the capability to nuke the world to oblivion despite what CNN, the 'intelligence' agencies and politicians said.

 

[StriderX]

They'll probably say that the source is CNN who are not very trustworthy when it comes to facts and truthful journalism, often using anonymous sources to push invented stories.

The smart people will wait for a little thing called evidence which if it is true I'm sure we'll be presented with at some point to prevent another Iraq war style mistake, thankfully Iraq didn't have the capability to nuke the world to oblivion despite what CNN, the 'intelligence' agencies and politicians said.

Ah yes, because Fox News in 2002 weren't also up the neo-con sphincter trying to lick George Bush's Administrations proverbial, even though it's their stated duty to put forward the GOP line.

The CIA document barely said anything, and they still turned into "we have no choice", which is probably why 7/7 even happened and everything since.

So i'll go ahead and blame 7/7 on people trying to say that Fox News didn't report as such.

 

[Angilion]

[..]
Something that is bound to raise some suspicion, at least according to how the media are reporting it, is that Dawn was still alive when medical staff informed family that they wanted to remove life support, and the family said their goodbyes, life support was removed, and she died an hour later. If this chronology is accurate, why only 8 days for Dawn, when according to the timeline of the story Yulia only awoke from coma after 3 weeks, and Sergei after 4 weeks? Is it good enough reason that the story is she received "ten times the amount of nerve agent"? Surely they'd just invite further criticism that she wasn't being given the same care as the Skripals (a claim made by Dawn's son I believe) by not keeping her on life support for at least an equal amount of time? Strange, and more detailed reasoning should be issued to the public promptly.

A good enough reason could be that she was effectively dead and Yulia and Sergei weren't. Modern life support can keep a body functioning after the person is effectively dead, so "life support" is arguably no longer an accurate term.

More details would be good, but it's also possible that more detailed reasoning has been released and not reported because "a person poisoned with a larger dose was more severely harmed than a person poisoned with a smaller dose" is not clickbait.

 

[Fubsy]

The bloke has told ITV News that he found the bottle in an expensive box and gave it to Dawn Sturgess. She sprayed it on herself and then became ill.

Now, I haven't been following this latest story all that closely, but no one has found this bottle and box have they?

 

[dowie]

The bloke has told ITV News that he found the bottle in an expensive box and gave it to Dawn Sturgess. She sprayed it on herself and then became ill.

Now, I haven't been following this latest story all that closely, but no one has found this bottle and box have they?

the police found the bottle in his home already, it was reported in this thread AFAIK

 

[Werewolf]

A good enough reason could be that she was effectively dead and Yulia and Sergei weren't. Modern life support can keep a body functioning after the person is effectively dead, so "life support" is arguably no longer an accurate term.

More details would be good, but it's also possible that more detailed reasoning has been released and not reported because "a person poisoned with a larger dose was more severely harmed than a person poisoned with a smaller dose" is not clickbait.

Aye people either don't know, or don't care that modern medical intervention can keep people alive for a very long time when the brain is effectively dead, and they can tell if the person is "simply" in a coma, or brain dead.
This ignores the fact that the doctors will often keep people in medically induced/prolonged coma's if it's what is needed for their treatment (either to keep the patent out of pain, or because it allows other organs/injuries a better chance to heal).

The bloke has told ITV News that he found the bottle in an expensive box and gave it to Dawn Sturgess. She sprayed it on herself and then became ill.

Now, I haven't been following this latest story all that closely, but no one has found this bottle and box have they?

It was said sometime last week by the police IIRC that they'd found a small perfume bottle with it.

 

[Fubsy]

Completely missed that then. How on Earth did they manage to miss that for so long then?!

Last time I heard anything on this story it was all mums panicking about letting little Jimmy run around the local park in case he found some Novichok left in some bushes.

 

[mmj_uk]

The DM article today about his ITV interview leaves more questions than it answers, in the interview he says he gave the perfume to his wife as a gift but the shopkeeper he talked to shortly after the incident quotes him as saying that he wishes she hadn't picked it up. He also can't remember where he picked it up and says that it was sealed like new.

 

[Werewolf]

Completely missed that then. How on Earth did they manage to miss that for so long then?!

Last time I heard anything on this story it was all mums panicking about letting little Jimmy run around the local park in case he found some Novichok left in some bushes.

They've only been able to work in the house for short periods of time, with limited numbers of people due to the heat and space/risks involved.

That means you can't really do a proper search quickly, as something that might take a couple of hours with a dozen officers normally could take weeks when you're dealing with hazmat conditions (the suits make it much harder to move/handle stuff, then you've got to be careful not to get it damaged).
They were saying something along the lines of the police only being able to work in the suits for about 30 minutes at a time, then having to completely decontaminate, rest, then go back in. Basically for about 30 minutes of slow searching in the suit they had several hours of prep and rest.