Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

[RaohNS]

Not the Russian Government, for a start, just like we have more than one Passport issuing authority (such as UKPA, FCO, UK IPS, etc). Let's try to use some common sense.

Russia is the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Can you highlight others?

It's just a little thing, but there is no such thing as "military grade", it's a buzzword that the media created to make it sound more scary. Think of it like a marketing buzzword.

I am aware of that. Strange how the UK Govt used the phrase repeatedly. It's almost like they were trying to push an agenda by using the word military.

It would be funny if these guys actually came forward like they did in the Mueller anal probe to demand to see the evidence.

 

[Django x2]

Furthermore, military grade, or military dosage, was the amount in the bottle, not the amount used on the door.

 

[Django x2]

Russia is the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Can you highlight others?

That makes no sense. Russia has a Ministry of Internal Affairs, it also has multiple passport issuing authorities, just like the UK does, and countless other countries do.

 

[Nasher]

So they're back in Russia, and probably already taken care of (ie dead) by the FSB for their failure ?

If it's anything like the last time, they will become politicians

The people running Russia are almost all ex-KGB/FSB/GRU, or whatever they are called this week to try and shake off the shame of the past.

 

[Werewolf]

"Military grade" is fairly simple to understand, when you consider that it's like "industrial" verses "residential".

It's a more concentrated or specific form.

For example I can go down to Morrisons or Tesco and buy a toilet cleaner, it'll be "residential" grade, one that is formulated to be (relatively) safe for use by people around the home, if I want an "industrial" strength cleaner I'm probably going to have to go to a specialist supplier and show I know how to handle and store it safely.

Nerve agents are pretty common, if you use fly sprays you've probably got one in your cupboard (they are usually nerve agents), if you work in agriculture or are a keen gardener you'll probably be around commercial types (they use some types for pesticide sprays, normally formulated to mainly affect insects) which are only really dangerous to humans if you breath it in in concentrated forms over a prolonged period(so only a risk if you're spraying it without a mask).
A "military grade" one is basically saying it's got no other use, is not licensed or made for any other purpose and it's only intended to kill humans (many nerve agents are fairly specific in the types of animals they kill - what works well on insects may not work well on mammals, or you may need massively higher concentrations).

 

[Nasher]

Military grade means someone hasn't knocked it up in their shed (like a terrorist), or isn't available to the public in any way. It's state built for use in a war.

 

[jpaul]

so still no financial sanctions from the UK laughable - letting the USA do it all

 

[StriderX]

Still doing nothing about all that Russian funding to the Tories though huh? or the Oligarchs using London as a hiding place?

Pitiful, i'll care when May has some teeth.

This could be the smoking gun for the South Russian division to move (Ukraine, they have tons of battle-ready soldiers now from Syria after all...), as it will escalate the problem far beyond a few poisons.

 

[stockhausen]

That makes no sense. [SNIP]

That is a reference to RaohNS, right?

 

[RaohNS]

On the military grade front. We all know the military grade thing is a nod and a wink referencing a point of war. It isn't that I or others think oh military grade... Must mean its worse. More that we understand the item being implied is both paradoxical and in the zero sum game propaganda used to stir up anti-Russian ill feeling.

 

[RaohNS]

That is a reference to RaohNS, right?

What happened to you Stockhausen? You used to be dvdbunny lite

 

[stockhausen]

The British Government:

• believes that it can prove that two Russians tried to kill Sergei Skripal
• accepts that Putin will never extradite the identified men for trial in the UK
• is quite happy to accept dirty money from corrupt Russians

Go figure . . .

 

[dowie]

I kinda stopped posting here as I've got rather a lot on, but I saw the news today and couldn't resist logging on and popping back to this thread and since I've got some free time this evening:

Here we go!

'Salisbury Novichok poisoning: Two Russian nationals named as suspects.'

Yup, it was mentioned/leaked not so long ago that they'd identified some suspects so I guess it was inevitable that they'd be named at some point. No doubt the Russian shills will still try to worm their way out of this one. The good thing is though that with the naming of them, or perhaps more usefully the publishing of their pictures given their names might well be fake, people can come forwards and identify them, their background etc..etc..

They'll both be on a plane over tonight then with a Putin apology on live TV...

haha

Who are these Russian Nationals and why did they do it?

Well presumably they work for GRU or were privately contracted, we don't necessarily know who they are as the names on the passports used could be fake.

But the hyperbole was clear:
- Military Grade
- Many times more potent than VX
- Made only in Russia (lie)

Yes the "military grade" stuff was a bit cringe worthy, I've commented on that previously but the meaning was clear in that this was something produced by a state. The article posted by Moses answers pretty much most of the questions about the nerve agent, it has been posted in here a couple of times already too.

** quote has since been removed **

1. We're being asked to believe that the Russian State asked/greenlighted two of their assassins to travel direct from Moscow to Heathrow, and return from Heathrow direct to Moscow. Not only that, but they were instructed to use their Russian passports instead of fake foreign ID. Interestingly, it is the MET itself who've brought up that they may have other aliases. Perfectly plausible of course, but then why didn't they use a foreign alias? It is also handy for them to bring that up, because if any proof surfaces of these two guys not being GRU, or even Russian, the MET and intelligence services can say "Well, we were led to believe that they were Russian, and had no evidence of otherwise, but remember we did warn they may have other aliases."

It isn't actually all that simple to do so (for some countries a visa would be needed and for countries where a visa wouldn't be needed then a fake would be easier to pick up) and in doing so they'd be at much higher risk of being detected/arrested. They'd generally need a fake passport whereas if they either use their genuine passports or the Russian state issues a Russian passport in a fake name for this operation then that chance is reduced. We also don't know what Russia's intentions were here - did they intend for this killing to go completely undetected or did they intend to send a message?

 

[stockhausen]

[SNIP]
The Russian government is dodgy as ****. The level of corruption in the country is ridiculous and it has infested every level of government.
[SNIP]

This corruption seems not to be restricted to the Russian Government and we are more than happy to help corrupt Russians salt away their ill gotten gains in the UK property market.

 

[Stretch]

This corruption seems not to be restricted to the Russian Government and we are more than happy to help corrupt Russians salt away their ill gotten gains in the UK property market.

Help or permit?

 

[Sankari]

So they're back in Russia, and probably already taken care of (ie dead) by the FSB for their failure ?

Back in Russia, certainly. Dead? Unlikely.

I meant: Like what is their job. Are they spies/hitmen/links etc.

Theresa May says they have been identified as Russian military intelligence officers.

Look on Craig Murrays twitter. Questions arising already

Craig Murray is a raving lunatic who shills for Russia and blames Israel for everything. At some stage he'll probably get around to blaming Israel for leaves on the line.

He's in no position to provide any detailed insight into this issue. You might as well consult a headless chicken.

 

[Django x2]

1. We're being asked to believe that the Russian State asked/greenlighted two of their assassins to travel direct from Moscow to Heathrow, and return from Heathrow direct to Moscow. Not only that, but they were instructed to use their Russian passports instead of fake foreign ID. Interestingly, it is the MET itself who've brought up that they may have other aliases. Perfectly plausible of course, but then why didn't they use a foreign alias? It is also handy for them to bring that up, because if any proof surfaces of these two guys not being GRU, or even Russian, the MET and intelligence services can say "Well, we were led to believe that they were Russian, and had no evidence of otherwise, but remember we did warn they may have other aliases."

2. The nerve agent was discovered on May 4th, in a hotel room. In their hotel room. Yet the hotel was not immediately evacuated and sealed off to undertake a thorough investigation, and to prevent any possible harm to the public. We are then told that only very little traces of it were found (enough to point the finger at the two suspects...) and that all of it was actually cleaned off by the very swabs used to compile samples for testing, so further swabs showed up nothing, therefore no need to invite the OPCW to the hotel, cause "you won't find anything".

Heathrow? Do you even read?

 

[Danny75]

Heathrow? Do you even read?

Just realized I wrote Heathrow twice, thanks. Moscow > Gatwick then Heathrow > Moscow. Will edit my post.

 

[Stretch]

<snip>

You seem to be looking for every possible tenuous reason to ignore the elephant right in front of you.

Two Russian men, flew from Russia to London for a two day visit. They travelled to Salisbury, back to London, then back to Salisbury, and were seen very close to the home of an ex Russian agent the day he was attacked with a nerve agent and then they flew back to Russia the same day.

At the very least they deserve to be locked up for poor holiday planning.

 

[Malevolence]

Pretty sure I read that these two Russians had consecutive passport numbers too. So yeah, nothing dodgy going on there at all. It's all just a big coincidence.