Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

It’s not seemingly at odds with what he said. He just pointed out there’s a difference between evidence and intelligence, no?


Basu was asked if there was evidence of Russian state involvement. He said no. He was also asked if there was evidence that the two men were GRU, and he fudged on that one, and asked for the public's help to determine it.

May said we have intelligence that we cannot show you and that "based on this body of intelligence, the government has concluded...". Well, at that point the intelligence has become evidence good enough for them to conclude, and to make the allegation. So there's no longer any difference between intelligence and evidence, in their eyes.

Basu may not have seen the evidence others have but he also seems unwilling to accept May's (and those giving May such intelligence) assurances that they are GRU. In his statement (before answering some press questions) he quoted May back in March saying the Russian state was responsible, and then asked for the public's help to find evidence of this. It struck me as very odd. He could have said "The PM said this and now the police is in a position to concur". But he restricted himself to quoting her. And in following up by asking for the public's help in finding evidence for Russian state involvement, he's practically saying he has none. Or he's letting the public know that "just so you know, I'm not being shown some of the evidence, so I'm not making the same GRU allegations that May is."
 
Goto: www.craigmurray.org

Notice the picture of the two assassins in exactly the same place at exactly the same time. These are issued by Met Police.

That level of fabrication of images is Bellingrat skill

I like Craig too. He's rushed a bit on two occasions this time and got the wrong end of the stick. But he knows he's rushed and has admitted it. This latest from him is better: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/skripals-the-mystery-deepens/

This in particular is worth considering:

So even if the Skripals made an “invisible” trip home before being seen on Devizes Road, that means the very latest they could have touched the doorknob is 13.15. The longest possible gap between the novichok being placed on the doorknob and the Skripals touching it would have been one hour and 15 minutes. Do you recall all those “experts” leaping in to tell us that the “ten times deadlier than VX” nerve agent was not fatal because it had degraded overnight on the doorknob? Well that cannot be true. The time between application and contact was between a minute and (at most) just over an hour on this new timeline.

In general it is worth observing that the Skripals, and poor Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley, all managed to achieve almost complete CCTV invisibility in their widespread movements around Salisbury at the key times, while in contrast “Petrov and Boshirov” managed to be frequently caught in high quality all the time during their brief visit.

This is especially remarkable in the case of the Skripals’ location around noon on 4 March. The government can only maintain that they returned home at this time, as they insist they got the nerve agent from the doorknob. But why was their car so frequently caught on CCTV leaving, but not at all returning? It appears very much more probable that they came into contact with the nerve agent somewhere else, while they were out.

Can it be refuted? Does the police have footage of them returning home, since they (allegedly) have footage of them leaving?
 
I like Craig too. He's rushed a bit on two occasions this time and got the wrong end of the stick. But he knows he's rushed and has admitted it. This latest from him is better: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/skripals-the-mystery-deepens/

Indeed. He left the error up for transparency. The usual suspects attack him for being open and honest about his mistake. If he deleted it they would be frothing at the mouth criticizing him for doing so. Lose-lose situation. Keeping something he got wrong shows integrity also.


Can it be refuted? Does the police have footage of them returning home, since they (allegedly) have footage of them leaving?

It will be interesting to hear an explanation. Exculpatory evidence again.
 
Yea, you think that but you don't get to his level of wealth being stupid. So that argument is just so exculpatory of its own inaccuracy.

That's a silly argument, he inherited a big lump sum and by some accounts he'd be richer if he'd just invested it in the S&P and done nothing, it seems that the cumulative effect of his business decisions (including numerous failed endeavours) might well have just served to make him poorer. In fact the main aspect of any "success" you'd want to attribute to him is simply that he owned a lot of property during a period where property prices rose significantly.

If you think that is evidence of him not being stupid then perhaps that explains your willingness to fall for Russian propaganda.

Have you ever thought at your shoulder right now Theresa May and a group of HMG is holding you shoulders and telling you to "Look! Look! See what that evil and corrupt government there is doing!" While looking back over their shoulders at all the corruption and skulduggery they themselves are doing.

You're welcome to draw attention to similar posts by the UK government if you like - have we recently used a nerve agent or radioactive isotope in an assassination overseas recently?
 
In the latter's case (sending a message), the elephant would be intentional on behalf of Russia. However, the elephant can also be intentional on behalf of someone else framing Russia.

Any evidence that someone did this to frame Russia? It seems the flights came from Russia and used Russian passports + they have the faces of the GRU personnel who did it.... I suspect that if they were from some third party country then Russia would be the first to scream that actually they only just entered Moscow via [insert some other country] on XYZ flight... would be easy enough to confirm too. But that hasn't happened, have they been living in Moscow for years or do you purport that they are Russians but have chosen to work for a third country in order to frame Russia and yet still decided to return to Russia?

You really are clutching at straws with your attempts to come up with alternative narratives, this is the problem with conspiracy theorists, your own narratives are so full of holes yet you seem to be happy to exercise selective skepticism whereby you only attempt to pick holes in the "official" narrative, regardless of how dubious your attempt to do so is.
 
Personally, I don't see the point of all this, just a waste of time, I said this before, this should had been handled in the back channels because Russia isn't going to give in to any demands or anything. lol

If it was handled in secret, we could had got something back.
 
Love this, evidence good enough for several major world leaders - but not the overclockers shills!
 
Personally, I don't see the point of all this, just a waste of time, I said this before, this should had been handled in the back channels because Russia isn't going to give in to any demands or anything. lol

If it was handled in secret, we could had got something back.

Tbh, I think it was just because this went so public, due to where the Skripals were found and the contamination of the police officer etc, that the politicians had to be seen to do something.

If he had just been found dead at home some time later, I bet it wouldn't be acting out as it is now
 
Any evidence that someone did this to frame Russia?

If that is the case they are hardly going to admit to it. That's like if I were to ask you to show me a picture of the two men applying the nerve agent to the door handle (unfair). There is circumstantial evidence for either. Still, one might say "but what about the traces of nerve agent found in their hotel room?"

Well, how did it get there? Where/on what exactly was it found? Did someone step on some of it at Salisbury (remember that not all the Skripals movements that day were known, so even if perfect precautions were taken at known sites, someone may still have stepped on some of it) and carry it there? The details are unknown. But we know the OPCW was not invited to independently verify the presence of the nerve agent there, and the hotel was not even closed down. Traces allegedly found there after two months. Story only told and names and photos of the hotel occupants released four months after allegedly finding it. One could argue that if they really did want the public's help, they would release that information sooner, while the memories of those men would have been fresher in people's minds. And that if traces had actually been found and they genuinely believed the suspects to be responsible, they would have closed the hotel as a precaution. Such things constitute part of the legitimate reasons for suspecting someone is framing Russia, in spite of no "smoking gun" evidence.


It seems the flights came from Russia and used Russian passports + they have the faces of the GRU personnel who did it.... I suspect that if they were from some third party country then Russia would be the first to scream that actually they only just entered Moscow via [insert some other country] on XYZ flight... would be easy enough to confirm too. But that hasn't happened, have they been living in Moscow for years or do you purport that they are Russians but have chosen to work for a third country in order to frame Russia and yet still decided to return to Russia?

I'm not purporting anything in particular. Only pointing out that those two men may have been there for other reasons. I would personally like to know more about them. And the ball is in Russia's court now. Instead of saying "the names and photos mean nothing to us", they need to confirm whether or not the men are Russian, whether they work for the GRU, and if so, explain why the men were there that weekend. We don't even know if they are alive right now, or actually in Russia. However, they have apparently asked the UK for the mens' fingerprints, which seems a fair request, and apparently this has been denied for some reason.


You really are clutching at straws with your attempts to come up with alternative narratives, this is the problem with conspiracy theorists, your own narratives are so full of holes yet you seem to be happy to exercise selective skepticism whereby you only attempt to pick holes in the "official" narrative, regardless of how dubious your attempt to do so is.

Cuts both ways. The official narrative is a conspiracy theory and includes a conspiracy charge. In questioning it, other conspiracy theories are considered. I don't have a problem with considering plausible theories. I do think people ought to be careful with becoming invested in a particular one and wanting it to be true, as you then have an interest in ignoring evidence to the contrary. Explaining why some evidence is not conclusive, is not ignoring it.
 
Tbh, I think it was just because this went so public, due to where the Skripals were found and the contamination of the police officer etc, that the politicians had to be seen to do something.

If he had just been found dead at home some time later, I bet it wouldn't be acting out as it is now

Maybe. One problem with that is the allegation that Russian intelligence had been surveilling Yulia (which wouldn't surprise most people I should think). So if the plan was for Sergei to be found dead some time later, then how did they not know Yulia had arrived in Britain on Saturday to spend some time with Sergei, a day before the alleged attack took place?
 
It's often the case that innocent victims pay the ultimate price or suffer because of the incompetence and negligence of others, another way of looking at things is if this ex russian traitor spy had not been taking up residence in the uk a person would still be alive today and others would not be suffering, the british government and the british intelligence service are not always an effective team.
 
It's often the case that innocent victims pay the ultimate price or suffer because of the incompetence and negligence of others, another way of looking at things is if this ex russian traitor spy had not been taking up residence in the uk a person would still be alive today and others would not be suffering, the british government and the british intelligence service are not always an effective team.

He (Skripal) was swapped for one of theirs in our custody. Normal convention with a spy swap is that it is the end of the story, not coming back later to top him, particularly in such a bizarre hazardous way.
 
The same Russia that moved thousands of military personnel and hardware into another country whilst flatly denying it?
 
He (Skripal) was swapped for one of theirs in our custody. Normal convention with a spy swap is that it is the end of the story, not coming back later to top him, particularly in such a bizarre hazardous way.
That's not my point, I don't really care about those that enter into a world of espionage and ispy games and questionable practices or conduct, I care about the innocent victims who suffer.
 
That's a silly argument, he inherited a big lump sum and by some accounts he'd be richer if he'd just invested it in the S&P and done nothing, it seems that the cumulative effect of his business decisions (including numerous failed endeavours) might well have just served to make him poorer. In fact the main aspect of any "success" you'd want to attribute to him is simply that he owned a lot of property during a period where property prices rose significantly.

Ahhh yes because I forgot he is so poor now due to his investment choices he ran for President to ensure he had a place to live... That aeroplane... Paper... The £500m he made the other year... Monopoly money...

If you think that is evidence of him not being stupid then perhaps that explains your willingness to fall for Russian propaganda.

I think we should attack Iraq... In 45mins they could launch... Quick!!!!


You're welcome to draw attention to similar posts by the UK government if you like - have we recently used a nerve agent or radioactive isotope in an assassination overseas recently?

We prefer to call it suicide and leave a Dr in a field say he committed suicide by slitting his wrists, then saying he OD'd then claim he had a heart attack and then bury it under 70yr lock and key.

Or we prefer to stuff them in a bag and say it was some perverse sexual game (despite a yoga expert not being able to replicate this) and then inside the bag manage to bounce into the bath.

We don't use chemicals we just have the police and judiciary tell us it was an "accident"
 
The same Russia that moved thousands of military personnel and hardware into another country whilst flatly denying it?

Like when the BBC had on a guy saying Russia had moved 20,000 troops to the Polish border and 1,000 tanks. LOL

Or when the BBC reported they moved several army units to the Finnish border... While neglecting it was in response to the US saying they are stationing 30 iirc aircraft in Finland a few weeks before.
 
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