Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

[ubersonic]

Like when the BBC had on a guy saying Russia had moved 20,000 troops to the Polish border and 1,000 tanks. LOL

Or when the BBC reported they moved several army units to the Finnish border... While neglecting it was in response to the US saying they are stationing 30 iirc aircraft in Finland a few weeks before.

1: No that's nothing alike as you're comparing a reporting news (and from your tense presumably exaggerating it in your view) to invading another country and annexing part of it's territory. To quote Pulp Fiction it ain't the same ball park. It ain't the same league. It ain't even the same sport!

2: Do you have any sources for the articles you claim were misleading?

 

[dowie]

Ahhh yes because I forgot he is so poor now due to his investment choices he ran for President to ensure he had a place to live... That aeroplane... Paper... The £500m he made the other year... Monopoly money...

So you've just doubled down on the same flawed argument that rich people must be smart because they're rich... again he'd quite possibly be in a better position if he'd passively invested in the S&P - his business decisions have only made him poorer than he'd otherwise be and the fact he's managed to sustain various failed businesses is largely due to one thing, he happened to be heavily invested in property/real estate during a time when it rose significantly... and that is largely just because his father before him was in turn a real estate investor.

I think we should attack Iraq... In 45mins they could launch... Quick!!!!




We prefer to call it suicide and leave a Dr in a field say he committed suicide by slitting his wrists, then saying he OD'd then claim he had a heart attack and then bury it under 70yr lock and key.

Or we prefer to stuff them in a bag and say it was some perverse sexual game (despite a yoga expert not being able to replicate this) and then inside the bag manage to bounce into the bath.

We don't use chemicals we just have the police and judiciary tell us it was an "accident"

and so nothing really other than some conspiracies... you're really clutching at straws if you want to try and draw any equivalence between the actions of the Russian state and the UK

 

[Beer_MonsterUK]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45494627

Phew, that's a relief. The suspects are just innocent civilians and they'll be along presently to prove their not state sponsored assassins.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Looking forward to the story, the UK will have more evidence against them, so hopefully when they claim to be tourists, we will have CCTV imaging of them approaching the house / street very near the house.

 

[RaohNS]

1: No that's nothing alike as you're comparing a reporting news (and from your tense presumably exaggerating it in your view) to invading another country and annexing part of it's territory. To quote Pulp Fiction it ain't the same ball park. It ain't the same league. It ain't even the same sport!

Invading another country... Are we talking about the US and UK here or Russia?

Regarding the annexation of territory, the people voted in Crimea. Self determination is a fundamental right. Why did we accept Gibraltarian votes to remain British, but not Crimea who are ethnically speaking, mostly Russian.


[/quote]
2: Do you have any sources for the articles you claim were misleading?[/QUOTE]

From the reliable CNN:

15 Feb 2016: The US Air Force will send six F-16's to Finland this spring for exercises.... 100miles from the Russian border.

Finland since has reportedly purchased several FA18's.

The remark of the Polish border was on a live broadcast from a time somewhat similar. Look on a map to corroborate the lie. I remember chuckling at the time.

So you've just doubled down on the same flawed argument that rich people must be smart because they're rich... again he'd quite possibly be in a better position if he'd passively invested in the S&P

Possibly... So speculated to have done better.

- his business decisions have only made him poorer than he'd otherwise be and the fact he's managed to sustain various failed businesses is largely due to one thing, he happened to be heavily invested in property/real estate during a time when it rose significantly

You have just contradicted yourself... Either he would be richer investing in S&P or he did well because he held property at a time when prices rose significantly...

and that is largely just because his father before him was in turn a real estate investor.

Again... Which is it? He is only rich because his Dad left him money or he made that money into something more? If he makes more money than he received, the answer is then clear.

so nothing really other than some conspiracies... you're really clutching at straws if you want to try and draw any equivalence between the actions of the Russian state and the UK

The 45min launch was not a conspiracy. It is verifiably a false and damaging that resulted in an incredible and needless loss of life that has birthed some very disgusting terror groups that you support.

Dr Kelly has had the account under lock and key for 70yrs because he was found to be the mole leaking the govts warmongering.

What equivalence? You think the UK state is less corrupt and less capable than the Russian state. Both are capable of great horror.

 

[ubersonic]

Invading another country... Are we talking about the US and UK here or Russia?

Russia obviously, you tried to compare their invasion/annexation of Crimea to the BBC misreporting (in your opinion) things. Even if the accusation against the BBC is legitimate the two aren't even remotely comparable.

2: Do you have any sources for the articles you claim were misleading?

The remark of the Polish border was on a live broadcast from a time somewhat similar. Look on a map to corroborate the lie. I remember chuckling at the time.

That's a no then...

You have just contradicted yourself...

He hasn't, his explanation was clear. Trump inherited a fortune, then mismanaged it so badly he's ended up with significantly less money than he would have if he had simply invested it. The only reason he still has so much is because some of his bad investments eventually increased in value over time due to inflation. But if he hadn't made said bad investments and hadn't had to file so many bankruptcies then he would have a lot more.

You think the UK state is less corrupt and less capable than the Russian state.

Anyone with multiple brain cells knows that to be true.

 

[gettothechopper]

Invading another country... Are we talking about the US and UK here or Russia?

Regarding the annexation of territory, the people voted in Crimea. Self determination is a fundamental right. Why did we accept Gibraltarian votes to remain British, but not Crimea who are ethnically speaking, mostly Russian.

To use your example - it would be like unmarked spanish soldiers invading Gibraltar and then holding a vote if the residents want to be part of spain, and winning - while spain denies the existance of those soldiers

would we accept that vote as legitimate?

 

[RaohNS]

Russia obviously, you tried to compare their invasion/annexation of Crimea to the BBC misreporting (in your opinion) things. Even if the accusation against the BBC is legitimate the two aren't even remotely comparable.

The BBC did and does misreport. They were the mouthpiece for the Iraq War. All countries do bad, you think that IF Russia had the Skripals poisoned that it is worse than invading a nation (3 as the case may be with a 4th in an attempt and a 5th by proxy).

Russophobia.

That's a no then...

You expect me to find for you a 10second statement out of 26,280hrs worth of BBC filming?

The guy sat there, bold as brass and declared Russia had moved thousands of troops to the Polish border along with hundreds of pieces of artillery. This cannot be true.

He hasn't, his explanation was clear. Trump inherited a fortune, then mismanaged it so badly he's ended up with significantly less money than he would have if he had simply invested it. The only reason he still has so much is because some of his bad investments eventually increased in value over time due to inflation. But if he hadn't made said bad investments and hadn't had to file so many bankruptcies then he would have a lot more.

Well, since you don't have access to the Time stone, you can only speculate about that.

Right, as you have raised the statement: How much did Trump inherit?

Anyone with multiple brain cells knows that to be true.

For every item you can accuse Russia of, counter evidence could be provided showing the UK of the same duplicitous actions.

The only thing we cannot accuse Russia of is invading 3 countries, trying to invade a fourth or using a proxy to wage war on a fifth. Equally, we cannot put - depending on your sources - between half a million and one million deaths on one nations wars.

 

[DreadNiK]

shilling, lying

 

[RaohNS]

To use your example - it would be like unmarked spanish soldiers invading Gibralter and then holding a vote if the residents want to be part of spain, and winning - while spain denies the existance of those soldiers

From Pew Research:

According to a survey in April 2014, majority of Crimean residents say the referendum was free and fair (91%) and the government in Kiev ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%)

82% of those polled said they fully supported Crimea's inclusion in Russia and another 11% expressed partial support (93%), only 4% spoke against

Two sources both respected (the latter I might add was taken by the Ukrainian branch of the GfK).

would we accept that vote as legitimate?

Depends if we respect the will of the people who cast their vote doesn't it. If the people make the RIGHT decision to align with politicians... Brexit for example... You bleat that wasn't a free and fair election then make up that all the Leave voters now want to remain.

 

[Danny75]

To use your example - it would be like unmarked spanish soldiers invading Gibraltar and then holding a vote if the residents want to be part of spain, and winning - while spain denies the existance of those soldiers

would we accept that vote as legitimate?

The Crimean referendum has been accepted as legitimate, in truth. Just not politically, which doesn't have a close relationship to truth. Nobody who moans about it has asked for another referendum to take place, knowing full well that the results already reflect the will of the majority. QED.

 

[RaohNS]

A poster with no argument. So having to resort to ad hominem attacks. One of the marks of a sophist

 

[RaohNS]

The Crimean referendum has been accepted as legitimate, in truth. Just not politically, which doesn't have a close relationship to truth. Nobody who moans about it has asked for another referendum to take place, knowing full well that the results already reflect the will of the majority. QED.

Doesn't fit the narrative so throws the crayons down and suck their thumbs.

 

[ubersonic]

The BBC did and does misreport. They were the mouthpiece for the Iraq War.

They were a news agency reporting on the Iraq war, one of many news agencies doing so, and as usual one of the more balanced/fair in their reporting.

you think that IF Russia had the Skripals poisoned that it is worse than invading a nation

No, hence why I never said that, their invasion of Crimea was much worse.

Russophobia.

Your attempt at an insult fails miserably because I actually like it when I get called both a Putin bot and a Russophobe, because it reassures me that I'm not biased either way ^^

You expect me to find for you a 10second statement out of 26,280hrs worth of BBC filming?

If you're citing it as a reference to backup a claim then yes, that's how things work.

The guy sat there, bold as brass and declared Russia had moved thousands of troops to the Polish border along with hundreds of pieces of artillery. This cannot be true.

For reference, I think you're referring to the 2017 Zapad war games which took place in Belarus (next to Poland) however they only used 250 tanks, 70 aircraft, 200 artillery and 13,500 troops (numbers from RT, corroborated by NATO press releases).

Well, since you don't have access to the Time stone, you can only speculate about that.

Actually due to a magical thing known as H-I-N-D-S-I-G-H-T I can say it as fact with 100% certainty, that's kind of how time works.

Right, as you have raised the statement: How much did Trump inherit?

Roughly $200,000,000, I say roughly as he inherited an empire not a bank vault. That's in addition to the $70,000,000 loan he only got because his father and his business associates guaranteed it to give him a leg up.

Accounting for inflation the money/assets he got from his father are worth over $1 billion today, if they had been invested with a modecom of sense he would be worth significantly more than the $3-4 billion he is worth today.

For every item you can accuse Russia of, counter evidence could be provided showing the UK of the same duplicitous actions.

Depends how lax your definition of evidence is.

The only thing we cannot accuse Russia of is invading 3 countries

Depends, I mean you're twisting the narrative to fit you viewpoint here but we can try to play along. Ukraine (2014 - present), Georgia (2008) and Afghanistan (1979 – 1989, or is it only wrong when the USA does it?) there's three

 

[Orionaut]

He (Skripal) was swapped for one of theirs in our custody. Normal convention with a spy swap is that it is the end of the story, not coming back later to top him, particularly in such a bizarre hazardous way.

Normal convention is also that after being swapped out, the relevant parties stop being Spies.

Now, I do not know what the actual situation here was/is, but if Skripal was continuing to help the British security services then he would, quite rightly, be considered a reasonable target for assassination by the Russians.

But whatever the reasons, A more targeted and less random method should have been used.

Poisoned Umbrella (Markov) Fine.

Polonium 210/Nerve gas, Not-Fine!

 

[Em3bbs]

I haven't read much of the thread, but have the conspiracy theorists who were blaming the nearby chemical plant now said "Oh, whoops, yes we were completely wrong" yet?

 

[Freakbro]

I haven't read much of the thread, but have the conspiracy theorists who were blaming the nearby chemical plant now said "Oh, whoops, yes we were completely wrong" yet?

Dear Lord not a chance!

And it certainly wasn't the two Russians flying in to the country on fake passports for 2 days, who whilst caught on CCTV just happened to go to Salisbury on the day of the attack and to the same street as Skripals house, then flew back to Moscow that day without the luggage they came with.

Nope, definitely wasn't them either!

 

[ubersonic]

But whatever the reasons, A more targeted and less random method should have been used.

In fairness to the GRU, if everything had gone to plan then Skripal would have contacted the nerve agent, died alone in his home, not been discovered for weeks and the coroner would have concluded an undetermined cause of death, case closed.

It took a LOT of random bad luck for things to go as wrong as they did. They should probably have discovered his daughter would be visiting him (as she is one of their citizens) but even then, a randomly overheard conversation at Porton Down resulting in successful identification of the nerve agent was super bad luck and nobody could have foreseen a junkie rummaging through garbage finding the weaponized perfume applicator and giving it to his girlfriend.

 

[dowie]

You have just contradicted yourself... Either he would be richer investing in S&P or he did well because he held property at a time when prices rose significantly...

there isn't a contradiction - he'd probably have done better passively investing in the S&P
he has had numerous failed businesses, the main reason behind his "success" is that property prices rose significantly
again... he'd have probably done better passively investing in the S&P

Again... Which is it? He is only rich because his Dad left him money or he made that money into something more? If he makes more money than he received, the answer is then clear.

"if he makes more money than he received" - nope... it isn't exactly hard for a multi millionaire to make money over time by doing nothing

And it certainly wasn't the two Russians flying in to the country on fake passports for 2 days,

might not even be fake passports, one of them is due to appear on Russian TV in coming days - quite possibly GRU got some former operators who currently have civilian jobs to pull this off

 

[Freakbro]

might not even be fake passports, one of them is due to appear on Russian TV in coming days - quite possibly GRU got some former operators who currently have civilian jobs to pull this off

Their passport numbers only had the last digit difference, xxxxxx1297 and xxxxxx1294, that would be one hell of a coincidence if they were legit ones