Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

RaohNS said:
Or it doesn't happen because-
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No, there is no other option, hence the point that Russia have completely checkmated themselves here epically.

If what they are saying is true, then they will do it because it's bordering a once in a lifetime chance, it's been over half a century since they have last had a even remotely comparable opening to gain credibility, damage their enemies credibility, boost public opinion at home and boost sympathy with neutral countries/people (1960 U2 incident). It's such a slam dunk that them not doing it is by itself defacto admission that they are the same person, that's how big this is.

The only plausible reason for not showing the two of them to be different people is because they are the same person (NB: I said plausible, another possible reason for not doing it would be that Putin is medically retarded but we know that to be untrue).
 
ubersonic said:
No, there is no other option, hence the point that Russia have completely checkmated themselves here epically.
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I follow what you are saying. I do. But putting a GRU officer "out there" would cost at least hundreds of thousands of pounds (think of training and resource etc plus they would be useless as an asset after that as would be added to every non domestic no fly list).

It's not a checkmate, it's still a stalemate.

If what they are saying is true, then they will do it because it's bordering a once in a lifetime chance, it's been over half a century since they have last had a even remotely comparable opening to gain credibility, damage their enemies credibility, boost public opinion at home and boost sympathy with neutral countries/people (1960 U2 incident). It's such a slam dunk that them not doing it is by itself defacto admission that they are the same person, that's how big this is.
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Oh I quite agree, but the above still proves a factor. Turning attention back to HMG, this matter has too many holes still to make for a fully closed case. The evidence thus far is insignificant, especially considering what is being held back.

These men wouldn't be extradited either as the Russian constitution forbids it.

only plausible reason for not showing the two of them to be different people is because they are the same person (NB: I said plausible, another possible reason for not doing it would be that Putin is medically retarded but we know that to be untrue).
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It isn't the only one. Come on ubersonic, think of the other possibilities.

Have you ever considered what if they are not the same person? What will you turn your attention to then? (After you have proven wrong of course)

I don't blame you for taking a cheap shot at Putin, he is reviled here in the West, justifiably in some part, but he is loved by most in Russia.
 
RaohNS said:
Or it doesn't happen because as a special forces soldier, revealing his identity to the world so publicly would be a waste of thousands of hours training and many many thousands in training etc.

Why don't we publicly name out spies/SAS men the same way? Because of the same reasons.
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I think I'm being a bit thick here and missing something obvious but if they are photos of two separate people, with one of them being Chepiga, doesn't that make his cover already blown?
 
Freebird101 said:
I think I'm being a bit thick here and missing something obvious but if they are photos of two separate people, with one of them being Chepiga, doesn't that make his cover already blown?
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The picture of "Chepiga" is from 2003 (15yrs old). It does in a way, but having him known from Brisbane to Boston may preclude him being a persona non gratis.

If you know anything about how spies operate for example MI5 operate as thus:
MI5 agents (spies) would never do a killing (according to their modus operandi), instead an officer will have contacts who can do the job (hitmen), to ensure that MI5 have deniability
 
I haven't a clue how spies operate, I've never served in the intelligence services.

Fair cop on the age of the photo I was not aware of that, though I'd imagine his value has been significantly reduced with even such an old photo being plastered round the world.
 
RaohNS said:
If you know anything about how spies operate for example MI5 operate as thus:
MI5 agents (spies) would never do a killing (according to their modus operandi), instead an officer will have contacts who can do the job (hitmen), to ensure that MI5 have deniability
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MI5 will hire people to carry out killings???

You realise they're the UK's security service, they are concerned about national security, it's not their job to kill people they don't even have powers to arrest the people they might be keeping an eye on - special branch/or counter terrorism officers do that.

Also an MI5 "agent" is a third party, not an employee... i.e. what the police might call an informant or criminals might call a snitch
 
dowie said:
MI5 will hire people to carry out killings???

You realise they're the UK's security service, they are concerned about national security, it's not their job to kill people they don't even have powers to arrest the people they might be keeping an eye on - special branch/or counter terrorism officers do that.

Also an MI5 "agent" is a third party, not an employee... i.e. what the police might call an informant or criminals might call a snitch
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MI5 and am going to assume MI6 in certain circumstances can be allowed to commit criminal activity within the UK, what they can do or how far they can do remains confidential.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...re-allowed-to-commit-in-uk-government-reveals
 
Re: the photos

This person, who lately seems to be acting as Russia's version of Bellingcat, or at least has lately been refuting Bellincat's claims, maintains that none of the photos are Chepiga and that all are Boshirov at different ages. Implying that the simple trick that's been pulled was selling the false claim that a photo of a young Chepiga had been obtained, when in reality (according to 'Elenacat') it's Boshirov as well.

https://twitter.com/elenaevdokimov7/status/1046318522610016256

Makes sense although I don't see any proof offered. Then again, Bellingcat's proof that the photo is of a young Chepiga is likewise non-existent, being an anonymous source's claim that they obtained it from "extracts of the passport file of Chepiga".
 
IronWarrior said:
MI5 and am going to assume MI6 in certain circumstances can be allowed to commit criminal activity within the UK, what they can do or how far they can do remains confidential.
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They still have some oversight... criminal activity like breaking into a property etc.. is a bit different from paying for someone to be killed.
 
dowie said:
MI5 will hire people to carry out killings???
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Why is that such an alien concept? This is, after all the same MI5 that kept Salman Abedi and other members of the LFG as assets.

I read it a while ago, a high up was asked if MI5 agents had killed people and the response was no and that was not how they operate. Having read a ****load of stuff in my late teens very often intelligence agencies have various go to contacts for specific tasks (SAS have a group inside if I remember rightly called "The Increment").

realise they're the UK's security service, they are concerned about national security, it's not their job to kill people they don't even have powers to arrest the people they might be keeping an eye on - special branch/or counter terrorism officers do that.
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Their role is often far more encompassing than you are willing to admit. They aren't Bond. I will tell you that I have had a very lengthy conversation last year with a somewhat eminent historian (and Dr) who specializes in Military Intelligence.

He said to me that how MI5 and MI6 operate (I speculate other Intel agencies do likewise), is that if there is a task, the agent will never do the job themselves. They act through conduits. This was at the time the Iranian woman was being held and I remember thinking this could be one of the reasons the Iranians were holding her. I am not saying she was acting on behalf of, merely that the Iranian authorities might suspect it.

Thus if an MI5 agent has a package to "drop" he or she would never be doing it directly themselves. They have a range of contacts for ALL kinds of circumstantial needs. Paying money, monitoring... Killing.

an MI5 "agent" is a third party, not an employee... i.e. what the police might call an informant or criminals might call a snitch
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That's quite true. They gather intelligence but can often operate independently. In fact most intelligence agencies are leased with some autonomy (as the post above with the Guardian link shows)
 
RaohNS said:
Why is that such an alien concept? This is, after all the same MI5 that kept Salman Abedi and other members of the LFG as assets.
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Because they're our domestic security service - they mostly work within the UK, they collect information and they work with the police, provide an intelligence product to government etc..etc.. there isn't really any need.

AFAIK they don't even have powers of arrest, they collect information and they provide intelligence - they have people who can conduct surveillance, they have people who can place electronic listening devices, they can obviously listen into phone calls etc.. and of course they recruit and handle agents i.e. paid informants.

RaohNS said:
That's quite true. They gather intelligence but can often operate independently. In fact most intelligence agencies are leased with some autonomy (as the post above with the Guardian link shows)
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I think you're missing the point there, it was slightly pedantic but given what you've posted above you're still misusing the word "agent". Perhaps I wasn't clear before but I'll try again:

DC Bloggs is a police office - he works for CID
Tyrone is a member of a gang in Brixton - he got arrested last month, he's now providing information to DC Bloggs, Tyorne is an informant or a "snitch"

in the context of the intelligence services, Tyrone would be the "agent" or asset

you seem to be using "agent" above to describe an employee rather than a third party who is being paid for information
 
dowie said:
Because they're our domestic security service - they mostly work within the UK, they collect information and they work with the police, provide an intelligence product to government etc..etc.. there isn't really any need.
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I know this. What I am saying is MI5 have (as per later in your post) assets who act on their behalf. When stuff comes to them they decide what to do or how to proceed (the autonomy principle).

AFAIK they don't even have powers of arrest, they collect information and they provide intelligence - they have people who can conduct surveillance, they have people who can place electronic listening devices, they can obviously listen into phone calls etc.. and of course they recruit and handle agents i.e. paid informants.
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I am fully aware of the above (see my post earlier on Salman Abedia and LFG as evidence of this).


I think you're missing the point there, it was slightly pedantic but given what you've posted above you're still misusing the word "agent". Perhaps I wasn't clear before but I'll try again:

DC Bloggs is a police office - he works for CID
Tyrone is a member of a gang in Brixton - he got arrested last month, he's now providing information to DC Bloggs, Tyorne is an informant or a "snitch"

in the context of the intelligence services, Tyrone would be the "agent" or asset

you seem to be using "agent" above to describe an employee rather than a third party who is being paid for information
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I follow your line of reasoning and haven't disagreed. To differentiate then shall we use the term MI5 officer. Agent can mean many things as an interchangeable aspect.

Just as an addition: MI5 are principally domestic (although they had a major hand in what was British Guyana and overthrow of leadership there with Nagar (sp?). MI6 are now overseas.
 
It turns out that the Hague is popular with random Russians who just want to visit historic sights, any reports they had a lot of electronics and hacking equipment is just propaganda.

The receipts they had on them for their taxis from the GRU Barracks to the airport are just because it's a common place for random Russians to stop and admire the picturesque architecture there before heading off on their holidays.
And because Russian embassies are so welcoming to random Russians, it's nothing unusual for a member of the embassy staff to act as a guide and greet random Russian tourists at the airport.
 
Typical cultural Marxist, anti-manly-man leftist propaganda.

Everyone knows the real truth: they were hunting Pokémon.
 
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