Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

Semple said:
Stealing this!

Whilst the UK hasn't got a hope in hells chance of some form of retaliation against Russia, there are a lot of Russian Oligarchs in London with a lot of property. Would be easy to put travel bans on them and seize this property until they could prove how it was funded (which probably half of them won't be able to do).

Any other sort of response will just get laughed at.
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It was my understanding that all of the people associated with the Russian ruling elite are barred from visiting the EU and other western countries as per Ukraine related sanctions. There is nobody left to bar from visiting the UK. If you add Magnitsky act then it covers pretty much any and all people (unless I mis-remembered).

The other wealthy Russian are the ones who fell out of favour with the current elite in Russia so there would be no point in punishing them.

What is left to do? I do wonder what is a reasonable response to this.

I think expelling the Russian ambassador and placing sanctions on people who they think are involved (probably already under sanctions) is the most the UK can do.
 
Nerusy said:
I think expelling the Russian ambassador and placing sanctions on people who they think are involved (probably already under sanctions) is the most the UK can do.
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We could band together with the rest of the EU (who have expressed backing/support for us on this matter) in order to forge a trade deal with Iceland to remove the tariffs from their Vodka making it cheaper (it's already better than Russian ****).

That would really hurt lol.
 
Freakbro said:
But from what the news seems to be saying, we know it's the Russians specifically because it is a Novichok chemical, and if the pollonium trail last time is anything to go by, they aren't the best at doing the job in a clandestine manner to cover their tracts.
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I doubt they were trying to be clandestine/cover their tracks in that respect else they'd have not used such unusual methods of assassination in the first place.
 
With regards to the actual assassination, the timing is absurdly bad for Russia. The civilian collateral damage and general incompetent way this was handled is also strange but I suppose such slip ups can happen. I do not think they wanted this to become big news for other defectors to see, all the other suspicious deaths in the UK have been fairly quiet with both the media and official medical experts saying the cause of death were natural.

If I do remember well, the UK found out about polonium by accident. So the Russians did not want to make any noise back then either with Litvenenko.

Is there any benefit for the Russians to have done this now and in such a manner? I can not see one. They cleared him for a swap because he did not have any more information to harm Russia and all he was doing is working as consulting for the MI6, hardly a threat. It is my understanding the swapped spies are off limits, they are to be left alone. Families of spies should also be off limits in theory as I understand.

Why would they do it and do it in such a way? :confused:

The only explanation that would make any sense is to scare others not to defect but plenty of Russian officials died under suspicious circumstances in the last couple of years, I think everybody who matters already got this message, this only sens this message to the populous/ civilians.

Utterly dumb and or incompetent. Unless conspiracy but lets not venture there.
 
I am honestly very sceptical about this and i tend to lean towards that it was not anything to do with the Russian Government.

During his term i would guess that he amounted quite a lot enemies across different countries many of them ex spies that probably do have access to old stock of the toxin involved.
 
Nerusy said:
With regards to the actual assassination, the timing is absurdly bad for Russia.
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Yeah the resulting backlash from the UK and it's allies against Russia will just be terrible for Putin's reelection hopes at the end of the month...

That's sarcasm in case anyone was confused, the timing is pretty much as good as it could be for Russia.
 
Good time for Russia to potentially test out NATO's response since Trump's criticism of some countries not paying their way.
 
Nerusy said:
Is there any benefit for the Russians to have done this now and in such a manner?
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It has probably happened in repose to a direct threat to Russia, i.e. another country (UK or USA) has very recently got hold of a load of state secret information via a spy and Vlad is outraged, killing a known existing spy is the best way he can warn anyone else off doing the same.
 
ubersonic said:
Yeah the resulting backlash from the UK and it's allies against Russia will just be terrible for Putin's reelection hopes at the end of the month...

That's sarcasm in case anyone was confused, the timing is pretty much as good as it could be for Russia.
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Interesting angle. I do not think he needed that. He has massive support as it is and if we are going with a view that the election results are falsified then again he does not need it.

Lets see if the western response will actually increase his polls.
 
Nerusy said:
If I do remember well, the UK found out about polonium by accident. So the Russians did not want to make any noise back then either with Litvenenko.
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that doesn't make much sense, there are plenty of ways of killing someone - to do so with a radioactive isotope or a nerve agent that pretty much only came from a state and when the targets were both rather obvious enemies of that state is kind of obvious

there isn't anything subtle about that poisoning with polonium
 
dowie said:
that doesn't make much sense, there are plenty of ways of killing someone - to do so with a radioactive isotope or a nerve agent that pretty much only came from a state and when the targets were both rather obvious enemies of that state is kind of obvious

there isn't anything subtle about that poisoning with polonium
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I thought it was only by luck that we spotted the Polonium?

"The BBC reported that by coincidence another scientist, who had worked on Britain's early atomic bomb programme decades before, happened to overhear a discussion about the small spike and recognised it as the alpha ray signal from polonium-210, which was a critical component of early nuclear bombs."
 
gettothechopper said:
I thought it was only by luck that we spotted the Polonium?

"The BBC reported that by coincidence another scientist, who had worked on Britain's early atomic bomb programme decades before, happened to overhear a discussion about the small spike and recognised it as the alpha ray signal from polonium-210, which was a critical component of early nuclear bombs."
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it's the idea that the Russians did not want to make any noise that is dubious, smuggling a radioactive isotope into the country and then using it to give someone a slow painful death like that knowing full well that it would be investigated isn't exactly being discrete
 
All we have so far, is the government saying "we think it was the Russians", then we have the media saying "the government said it might be the Russians, so it must be the Russians", and now we have every tom dick and harry who follow the British Brainwashing Corporation saying "it's the Russians". Yet no one has produced any evidence what so ever, that it was actually the Russians.
If Vlad wanted some one dead, I'm pretty sure they would be dead, and not just laying ill in hospital.
Why do the media constantly ignore the fact that it happened near a chemical factory where they actually make the stuff?

We know the Russians stopped the west and their arab allies from building their Qatar-Turkey pipeline through Syria, so this would be a perfect time to demonize Putin for that by blaming this on him.
 
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stopper said:
All we have so far, is the government saying "we think it was the Russians", then we have the media saying "the government said it might be the Russians, so it must be the Russians", and now we have every tom dick and harry who follow the British Brainwashing Corporation saying "it's the Russians". Yet no one has produced any evidence what so ever, that it was actually the Russians.
If Vlad wanted some one dead, I'm pretty sure they would be dead, and not just ill in hospital. And why do the media constantly ignore the fact that it happened near a chemical weapons and nerve gas factory?
There is more reason for the British establishment to do some thing like this, and blame it on the Russians.
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Same as American's did 911? Tin foil hat time?
Think you need to consider the "balance of probabilities". That means it's "probably" the Russians. Even if you base it on one question, "who else would want this guy dead and have access to a nerve agent", the probability is obvious, that's without considering everything else (increasing Russian aggression, history of such killings, nerve agent developed in Russia, the list goes on)
Could be Kim Jong trying to start a fight I suppose :p
Can't really do much about it I think. We're pnwed by China, Russia etc. At least we have Brexit (lol) and Trump will sort things out (bigger lol) - two big signs of a failing West and democracy, I mean idiocracy. While Russia and China forge ahead, powerfully, we just make fools of ourselves.
 
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stopper said:
All we have so far, is the government saying "we think it was the Russians", then we have the media saying "the government said it might be the Russians, so it must be the Russians", and now we have every tom dick and harry who follow the British Brainwashing Corporation saying "it's the Russians". Yet no one has produced any evidence what so ever, that it was actually the Russians.
If Vlad wanted some one dead, I'm pretty sure they would be dead, and not just ill in hospital. And why do the media constantly ignore the fact that it happened near a chemical weapons and nerve gas factory?
There is more reason for the British establishment to do some thing like this, and blame it on the Russians.
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eh?

the bbc are just reporting what the PM is saying ""Should there be no credible response," Mrs May told parliament, "we will conclude that this action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom"."

The only evidence so far available, is that a Russian type of Nerve agent has been used to try to kill an ex russian spy, who is saying otherwise?

Who is ignoring that salisbury is near porton down? is hardly a secret, there was an insider program on the bbc not that long ago (last year?) about what they do there with nerve agents
Although calling it a "chemical weapons and nerve gas factory" is a bit disingenuous

You think the British Establisment would unleash a nerve agent on the streets of Britian to make themselves look weak and unable to respond to Russian aggression? I dont see how that would help them
 
stopper said:
All we have so far, is the government saying "we think it was the Russians", then we have the media saying "the government said it might be the Russians, so it must be the Russians", and now we have every tom dick and harry who follow the British Brainwashing Corporation saying "it's the Russians". Yet no one has produced any evidence what so ever, that it was actually the Russians.
If Vlad wanted some one dead, I'm pretty sure they would be dead, and not just laying ill in hospital.
Why do the media constantly ignore the fact that it happened near a chemical factory where they actually make the stuff?

We know the Russians stopped the west and their arab allies from building their Qatar-Turkey pipeline through Syria, so this would be a perfect time to demonize Putin for that by blaming this on him.
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Russian spy who defected/double agent
Russian nerve agent, produced by the Soviet Union.

It is hardly a stretch to point the finger at Russia is it.
 
Along with obvious evasive language from officials when asked about it. At the same time as Putin hinting that defectors living abroad will be punished...

The nerve agent was made in Russia and designed to be undetectable. So they obviously went to great lengths to try and hide it but failed. Russia are well known for assassinating people in this way.
 
stopper said:
Yet no one has produced any evidence what so ever, that it was actually the Russians.
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The only people with access to this strain of Novichok are the Russians. The murder weapon comes from their stock and Mrs May has asked Russia to explain. What is so unclear about this?
 
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