Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

Panos · 14 Mar 2018 at 14:18

ubersonic said:
Not a difficult job when they have to down Su-27, MiG-29, MiG-23, etc (AKA the very things they were designed to down).

Unless Russia can pump out 300 Su-57 overnight they would be at a huge numbers disadvantage in the air.

Mig-23 lol. You aren't going to fight Albania.

From the "three big" only France has fighter configuration planes (89 M2000-5) and also 108 Rafale in multirole setup.
UK has only attack setup (aka ground attack), and Germany don't expect much because half their fleet is not airworthy according to the last ministry reports. (so around 90 multi role and 14 SEAD).

Last time I checked, Russia had upgraded a big number of the Su-27s to Su-35S to around 250 (70 brand new). That in addition to 130 Su-34 and 200 Su-30SM all for air superiority setup.

Andy_82 · 14 Mar 2018 at 14:26

Panos said:
Mig-23 lol. You aren't going to fight Albania.

From the "three big" only France has fighter configuration planes (89 M2000-5) and also 108 Rafale in multirole setup.
UK has only attack setup (aka ground attack), and Germany don't expect much because half their fleet is not airworthy according to the last ministry reports. (so around 90 multi role and 14 SEAD).

Last time I checked, Russia had upgraded a big number of the Su-27s to Su-35S to around 250 (70 brand new). That in addition to 130 Su-34 and 200 Su-30SM all for air superiority setup.

Doesn't the Eurofighter have an air to air capability? else why would it be used for QRA

Firestar_3x · 14 Mar 2018 at 14:27

Of course, iirc it was its dedicated initial role and air to ground was fitted as and when the tornado fleet slowly stood down.

ubersonic · 14 Mar 2018 at 14:28

Panos said:
Last time I checked, Russia had upgraded a big number of the Su-27s to Su-35S to around 250 (70 brand new). That in addition to 130 Su-34 and 200 Su-30SM all for air superiority setup.

Russia has ~700 modern fighter/multirole/etc aircraft, the EU air forces have over 1500.

Like I said Russia would have significant difficulty invading the EU when our air superiority would offset their tank numbers.

KillBoY_UK · 14 Mar 2018 at 14:47

ubersonic said:
Russia has ~700 modern fighter/multirole/etc aircraft, the EU air forces have over 1500.

Like I said Russia would have significant difficulty invading the EU when our air superiority would offset their tank numbers.

700 vs 1500 over a wide area, attack the right places at the right time and numbers would be little but who knows maybe NATO would be able to put up a strong defence

Secret_Window · 14 Mar 2018 at 14:49

I hope it never comes to war. Nothing good can possibly come of it.

Rroff · 14 Mar 2018 at 14:50

ubersonic said:
Russia has ~700 modern fighter/multirole/etc aircraft, the EU air forces have over 1500.

Like I said Russia would have significant difficulty invading the EU when our air superiority would offset their tank numbers.

One of the big issues for them is how over-extended they'd become - while IMO our initial forces are completely unprepared for that kind of engagement as things progress Russia would be more and more hampered by forward supply issues. They've improved that a bit with the experience in Syria but I believe it is still one area they have some respect for us - even with it eroded somewhat of late we've been fairly capable of rapid forward deployment of resources though other countries seem to have taken it more seriously in recent times than we have.

wildman · 14 Mar 2018 at 14:55

Secret_Window said:
I hope it never comes to war. Nothing good can possibly come of it.

May needs a war to bury Brexit out of minds/sight/the media front pages. Every leader has at least 1 war or conflict just at the right time to be able to bury something that would otherwise topple them because they are handling their home politics so badly. Sabre rattling with Russia is serving this purpose for her so she will probably carry on for a few more months. The electorate are fickle and will forget they are about to get sent to the poor house and will all be chanting for May because she "took on" Putin.

KillBoY_UK · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:01

wildman said:
May needs a war to bury Brexit out of minds/sight/the media front pages. Every leader has at least 1 war or conflict just at the right time to be able to bury something that would otherwise topple them because they are handling their home politics so badly. Sabre rattling with Russia is serving this purpose for her so she will probably carry on for a few more months. The electorate are fickle and will forget they are about to get sent to the poor house and will all be chanting for May because she "took on" Putin.

Rare Nerve agents almost killing 3 people in public, plutonium killing one in public such stuff does not drop off the back of a truck. Russia or not its rather low to call this saber rattling and that May is looking for a war.

What would you have her do "na mate it fine, carry on"

Minusorange · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:02

In a war with Russia nobody wins

Danny75 · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:03

How much less flak will the government and queen (who lunched with bin Salman) get for the £100 billion weapons deal with Saudi Arabia, when "that lot over there are evidently far worse, go criticize them, how can you make a fuss of this when Russia bla bla"?

KillBoY_UK · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:03

Minusorange said:
In a war with Russia nobody wins

Arms manufacturers

"In Russia war fights you!"

wildman · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:07

KillBoY_UK said:
Rare Nerve agents almost killing 3 people in public, plutonium killing one in public such stuff does not drop off the back of a truck. Russia or not its rather low to call this saber rattling and that May is looking for a war.

What would you have her do "na mate it fine, carry on"

of course its sabre rattling because ultimately May knows she can't win. If this was some <insert tin pot country> she would have already been going to town and taking real action. She is just cashing in on political capital now because if she keeps her sabre rattling for months it takes eyes away from where she is failing this country in both direction, policy and leadership. People are fickle and will only remember what they are told to by the media.

Brookert · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:13

wildman said:
of course its sabre rattling because ultimately May knows she can't win. If this was some <insert tin pot country> she would have already been going to town and taking real action. She is just cashing in on political capital now because if she keeps her sabre rattling for months it takes eyes away from where she is failing this country in both direction, policy and leadership. People are fickle and will only remember what they are told to by the media.

What would you do then Mr smarty pants. Nothing?

Secret_Window · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:16

wildman said:
May needs a war to bury Brexit out of minds/sight/the media front pages. Every leader has at least 1 war or conflict just at the right time to be able to bury something that would otherwise topple them because they are handling their home politics so badly. Sabre rattling with Russia is serving this purpose for her so she will probably carry on for a few more months. The electorate are fickle and will forget they are about to get sent to the poor house and will all be chanting for May because she "took on" Putin.

Possibly, but I just think there is too much sabre rattling from Russia recently for it to be something May is manipulating. Look at the track record from Russia: in 2016 during the Euros our football fans were attacked by Russian soldiers dressed as civilians. The way it was orchestrated and carried out was extremely suspicious and there were even leaked videos showing the men training for it. Then it's also no secret Russia has been probing our waters and our airspace for a number of years with increasing numbers, the nerve agents used in Syria, the cyber attacks on the EU and the US, and interference with our elections. Then more recently Putin demonstrates new nuclear capabilities that can breach our defence. Let's also not forget the assassinations previously on our soil as well. Without bias, when you look at it like that the behaviour by Russia is highly questionable.

wildman · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:18

Brookert said:
What would you do then Mr smarty pants. Nothing?

If she was serious she would take real actions including severing all financial ties with Putin, impound / confiscate financial assets held by Russian oligarchs in the UK, freeze all their banking capabilites including removing them from the swift transaction process so they can't bail out over night all their monetary assets. However she won't do this because deep dpwn she know she needs Russia's dirty money especially as she takes the UK over the Brexit cliff edge. So instead she will sabre rattle, chuck a few diplomats out and keep the pot fully stired for months so that the electorate will get slowly brainwashed into forgetting what a rotten job of actually governing the UK her and her party are actually doing. The Tories have no mettle or principles, they need that Russian cash and so will only pay lip service to their own electorate to make it look like they are taking "strong" action when what they are doing is mugging you all off

Rroff · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:19

Secret_Window said:
Then more recently Putin demonstrates new nuclear capabilities that can breach our defence. Let's also not forget the assassinations previously on our soil as well. Without bias, when you look at it like that the behaviour by Russia is highly questionable.

Russia hasn't really needed anything special to breach our defences for awhile nuclear wise - we've a massive gap in our high end anti-air and anti-ballistic missile defences that won't be filled until 2019 at the earliest and largely just relying on our Type 45s if it comes to it hence they've parked one up the Thames during major events, etc.

Andy_82 · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:22

wildman said:
If she was serious she would take real actions including severing all financial ties with Putin, impound / confiscate financial assets held by Russian oligarchs in the UK, freeze all their banking capabilites including removing them from the swift transaction process so they can't bail out over night all their monetary assets. However she won't do this because deep dpwn she know she needs Russia's dirty money especially as she takes the UK over the Brexit cliff edge. So instead she will sabre rattle, chuck a few diplomats out and keep the pot fully stired for months so that the electorate will get slowly brainwashed into forgetting what a rotten job of actually governing the UK her and her party are actually doing. The Tories have no mettle or principles, they need that Russian cash and so will only pay lip service to their own electorate to make it look like they are taking "strong" action when what they are doing is mugging you all off

What your calling real action takes time, she's already announced seizing assets of oligarchs in london if they break human rights etc. Removing them from the Swift banking system would also need multilateral action and thus will need support from allies - it would look really bad if we announced things we can't deliver.

Secret_Window · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:25

Rroff said:
Russia hasn't really needed anything special to breach our defences for awhile nuclear wise - we've a massive gap in our high end anti-air and anti-ballistic missile defences that won't be filled until 2019 at the earliest and largely just relying on our Type 45s if it comes to it hence they've parked one up the Thames during major events, etc.

But the point is he is sabre rattling, and this just highlights Russia's motives. If there is no bone to pick with us, why do it If Russia is not guilty of any hostility,?

wildman · 14 Mar 2018 at 15:27

Andy_82 said:
What your calling real action takes time, she's already announced seizing assets of oligarchs in london if they break human rights etc. Removing them from the Swift banking system would also need multilateral action and thus will need support from allies - it would look really bad if we announced things we can't deliver.

forget if they break human rights. They prop up a leader who dropped a chemical weapon in down town UK. You see even you are getting suckered in. They have already technically invaded UK lands with aggression so what else do we need to wait for ? You see if May had any stones she would do it now. You don't need support from your allies to slap financial sanctions down, this was on UK soil and the UK government needs to show its electorate that it can protect them by actually taking real action and not this pitiful pathetic rhetoric and the throwing out of a few low rent diplomats.