Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

ajf said:
Has any reason be given why the UK would not give Russia any of the evidence so far?
I believe it was reported there are official channels for this to be done, rather than simply stick it in the post so to speak!

In response to Panos’ comment:
Regards Porton Down, other than conspiracy theories, is there any real evidence that they manufacture chemical ‘WMD’ for anything other than small research quantities, which I believe numerous other countries do.
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Given that spies are involved conspiracy theories are bound to exist.

First of all even May said that there are no evidence and there might be other answer like other parties obtained the stuff from ex USSR facilities (or ever at all).
However that doesn't stop the rhetoric without hard facts, and kudos to Corbyn who doesn't go the same path.

As for Britain has as many chemical weapons as Russia has these days. Zero.
 
On tonight at 7:30, should be interesting:

How Russia uses propaganda to discredit opponents
A BBC Panorama investigation has revealed how the Russian state uses surveillance and propaganda to discredit critics of President Putin.

Opposition activists have long accused the Kremlin of using the security services and state-controlled TV to attack them.

When BBC Panorama went to Russia to investigate their claims, the same tactics were used against their reporter John Sweeney.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-43389032/how-russia-uses-propaganda-to-discredit-opponents
 
the problem May will have relying on her so called allies is this

Major_russian_gas_pipelines_to_europe.png


that is Gazproms distribution lines, countries they supply and future lines. Basically everything East of France and italy need Gazprom, and Gazprom is Russia, ergo they need Russia. May is going to start feeling isolated soon, so she may aswell starting growing some balls and start handing out real action to the Russians that will see their wealthiest backers feel the pinch. but as i said before she won't do that because she needs that dirty Russian money in the city to keep her in power and the UK lights on.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Impressive how you can declare something to be fake before even watching it, shows how balanced your views are.

As for Bacton, it is a non issue for the UK
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meh works for Trump and most people in here don't seem to care about qualifying that either................ but this is Russia so clearly it must be true. Funny how people say the BBC is bias, pumps fake news, bla bla, bla, but the minute they have something that fits peoples agenda they try and cite it as credible. Well which is it, the BBC is either impartial and a good news source or it isn't. Personally I think the BBC is actually OK, was seeing how long it would take some one to bite, and you were my first customer.
 
Panos said:
Isnt similar to UK where everyone against the government propaganda is called Russian troll? :)
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Government propaganda? Sometimes I wonder if I live in an alternate world to some people on the internet, we don't live in North Korea, we don't have state funded TV stations like RT and we have a free press.
 
Johno please? said:
Government propaganda? Sometimes I wonder if I live in an alternate world to some people on the internet, we don't live in North Korea, we don't have state funded TV stations like RT and we have a free press.
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Channel 4. Is not just funded but owned.

Also the BBC isn't what some could call independent, given that the government controls it's charter, and "holding" them immune to any movement for abolishing the TV TAX.

Just the coverage on Syria the last 6 years is more than enough for someone to make their mind.
Or Libya for that matter. Or Egypt...

And on that, just one part of Syria. How often didn't we hear about the heroic Kurds who are fighting ISIS in Syria, equipped and trained by USA.
However over the last 9 weeks total silence from the BBC, for these same people getting slaughtered by the Turkish army which invaded Syria not allowing the Kurds to build their autonomous region which promised and has the blessing of US, Syria and Russia?

Maybe because Turkey is NATO "ally", a friend of Britain (May's words last year from Turkey when signed the £200mn deal for new airplane)?
 
Johno please? said:
Government propaganda? Sometimes I wonder if I live in an alternate world to some people on the internet, we don't live in North Korea, we don't have state funded TV stations like RT and we have a free press.
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I wouldn't worry, you often find it's the people with 0 life experience, perhaps if they spent some time outside in the real world and sample an actual repressive culture they will realise how good we have it in the UK.
 
Panos said:
Channel 4. Is not just funded but owned.

Also the BBC isn't what some could call independent, given that the government controls it's charter, and "holding" them immune to any movement for abolishing the TV TAX.

Just the coverage on Syria the last 6 years is more than enough for someone to make their mind.
Or Libya for that matter. Or Egypt...

And on that, just one part of Syria. How often didn't we hear about the heroic Kurds who are fighting ISIS in Syria, equipped and trained by USA.
However over the last 9 weeks total silence from the BBC, for these same people getting slaughtered by the Turkish army which invaded Syria not allowing the Kurds to build their autonomous region which promised and has the blessing of US, Syria and Russia?

Maybe because Turkey is NATO "ally", a friend of Britain (May's words last year from Turkey when signed the £200mn deal for new airplane)?
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There operationally independent - they cannot report on everything going on in the world, and there has been reports on the bbc news website reguarding the actions the Turkish military are taking in Syria, its just not on the front page.

You only have to see how often they critisize the government, if they had to follow the state line that just wouldn't happen.
 
Firestar_3x said:
I wouldn't worry, you often find it's the people with 0 life experience, perhaps if they spent some time outside in the real world and sample an actual repressive culture they will realise how good we have it in the UK.
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what a pathetic statement, that's no different from giving a starving man a cracker and he states its the best god damn meal he has ever eaten.
 
Tosno said:
My money is on the SBU and I've been doing very well at Cheltenham.
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with back door support from the US, provides an easy in to shoe horning Ukraine into NATO without going through the usual process and allows US to put nukes that little bit closer to Moscow........... This could be cold war version 2.0 coming up. Unless of course Trump really is beholden to Putin due to some bizzare blackmail type scenario. But that's two off the chart conspiracy theories right there.
 
Johno please? said:
Government propaganda? Sometimes I wonder if I live in an alternate world to some people on the internet
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"When you tell your mates you went to Mars, and your mates say yeah we saw you there."

"When the government can't get away with denying propaganda is part of their job, but still a citizen claims there's none."

So endearing.
 
While the media and our politicians are quick to blame Russia for all of this, is there actually any proof they did this ?

I mean proof beyond the "Russians made Novichok so it has to be them" that we've all been spoonfed

Correct me if I'm wrong but we're supposed to live in a society where one is innocent until proven guilty, should we not hold Russia to these standards ?

I mean it's not like Russia was the only country to have access to it

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/25/world/us-and-uzbeks-agree-on-chemical-arms-plant-cleanup.html

And it's not like the formula isn't supposedly in this book

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/State_Secrets.html?id=ldpNPgAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

I'm not saying Russia isn't responsible, I'm just not as quick to condemn on nothing but regurgitated hearsay from biased media outlets
 
Panos said:
That agent is 2 parts, and needs to be mixed at the spot. Hence it was only used for bombs.
It can be manufactured by the UK (just down the road from the incident is the biggest WMD factory in Europe), it was manufactured on all Baltic states, in addition to Ukraine and Georgia. All of them NATO allies (or trying to be in the case of Ukraine) today.....
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The poison used to target ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury was a Novichok nerve agent, UK prime minister Theresa May revealed yesterday. The chemical was identified by the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, May told the House of Commons.

Novichok nerve agents – also known as the “N-series” – were secretly developed by the former Soviet Union beginning in the 1970s. They followed the “G-series” of nerve agents made by Germany in the 1930s and the “V-series” made by the UK in the 1950s. Novichok means “newbie” in Russian.

...The use of a Novichok in the attack on the Skripals makes it highly likely that Russia was involved, because no one else knows how to make them, says John Lamb at Birmingham City University, UK.

“The Novichok family was specifically created by Russia to be unknown in the West and as such it’ll be one of their most tightly guarded secrets,” he says.
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(Source).
 
Rroff said:
Anything particular you are talking about? aside from some of it being a little head in the clouds it seemed mostly reasonable and I'm not one to generally defend Corbyn.
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Just look at his own parties response to his statement and the backpedaling going on right now.

A lot of my labor voting friends on bookface have likewise posted up comments along the same lines.

If there was a moment which turned him from popular upswing to leader on the downfall, this was it.
 
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