Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.
- Thread starter Malevolence
- Start date
nope I'm happy to have a discussion about this but you're seemingly not willing to engage, if you actually want to engage in a civil conversation then just answer my previous questions so we can establish what exactly you're unsure of.
I think you're being intellectually dishonest here, I'm not sure what "ASL stuff" is but you're not even prepared to engage in discussion. I'm more than happy to have a discussion if you're willing but I'd like to know what specifically you're unaware of - I mentioned multiple incidents involving Russia. I find it hard to believe that you're unaware that say Russia invaded Crimea? Is that the case? If it is please say so and I'll find you some news reporting covering that, if not then you could perhaps save me some time and specify what exactly you need clarification from in my post.
I'd again refer you to the article about sea lioning as that is what you're attempting to do by just blindly demanding "proof" of multiple different events plenty of which are common knowledge and not in dispute. So if you're actually genuine in your questioning you ought to provide some clarification.
In fact, I'll play along @Amnesia I'll assume you have no knowledge of anything I've posted about - though so as not to get things too muddled I'll go through in order - lets take a look at my first claim:
"invading neighbouring states"
here is a recent example, Russia invading Georgia:
here is a BBC article from the time:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7550354.stm
here is an RT article 5 years after:
https://www.rt.com/politics/ossetia-georgia-russia-media-166/
So - were you completely unaware of that happening?
"invading neighbouring states"
here is a recent example, Russia invading Georgia:
here is a BBC article from the time:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7550354.stm
here is an RT article 5 years after:
https://www.rt.com/politics/ossetia-georgia-russia-media-166/
So - were you completely unaware of that happening?
Nope I'm still here, I haven't run away and I'm perfectly willing to discuss, I don't really want to derail the thread and frankly some of the posts are already doing that though so could you please engage in some discussion instead of just trolling. I've posted some links for you in the previous post, lets start there...
I'm perfectly happy to do that too in due course, but I've not had any response from you to the first one. Stop trolling please, I've posted the link and am willing to enter a discussion - can you please respond?
haha so you said it would be a waste of time yet have responded another 5 times on the same topic and failed to provide proof to back up your claims.
now you want to talk about the weather ? computer builds ? lego ? being a squirmy little worm ?
now you want to talk about the weather ? computer builds ? lego ? being a squirmy little worm ?
Like Cuba? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and Libya? Just because they aren't neighboring countries I.e. The US only shares a border with 2 nations. Russia shares it with 14-16 (depending on your sources)
remove neighboring and see if military bases and exclusive zones is not the same thing. Equally I could say to you that with Crimea, people have a right to self determination. I value tha. Some people don't because they get told no.
I'm noticing your caveat here: neighboring. So because of earlier statement we need to expand this a little further. Abducting border guards... The US special rendition (supported by the UK I might add)... Is that not abduction?
Yes, like depleted uranium rounds, thousands of which cause birth defects to this day or did you mean Agent Orange?
The US and UK have the most comprehensive assassination like (JPEL) with often thousands of individuals on it.
Yeah but your proof wouldn't stand up in trial. In fact after your opening statement, a Judge would be compelled to dismiss - with prejudice.
Same old... Same old.
Careful what you say, you are now saying the Russian STATE did this. The reality is it was Russian made weapons that we can be about 99% sure shot it down. In the 80's it was US stinger missiles that shot down civilian aircraft. Not the state but US made.
This is the brick wall moment. I am fine saying Russia do bad things. All the things I say here. But I can be open enough to admit the same from the UK.
Do we not do:
Dodgy arms deals
Support dictators
Conduct CE
Finance dodgy groups (eg ISIS/Al N)
Corrupt nations
Use our power to pressure smaller states
You think not, despite everything with irrefutable evidence to the contrary.
not quite, you're seemingly fine with detaching yourself from reality and trying to paint them as "just as bad" as the UK, US etc.. or portray them as just doing the same sorts of things as other countries...
Yet your response to journalists getting murdered is "same old same old"
and your response to the shooting of a civilian airliner is to pretend the posts where the inquiry has traced the source of the missile to a specific Russian military unit don't exist... you're just actively denying reality
trying to respond with "but Iraq, but arms deals" is just a weak attempt to draw a false equivalence - journalists in the UK don't need to worry about the state murdering them, the UK's neighbours don't need to worry about territory being annexed or border guards being abducted - we're not about to carve out an extra bit of the Republic of Ireland and add it to Northern Ireland, the US isn't about to annex a chunk of Mexico.
You have no equivalent of either the UK or US using a radioactive isotope as a weapon or a nerve agent, in the middle of a city, for a targeted assassination/to send a message.
You can't say that yet as all the facts are yet to come out - it's too early. Sometimes it takes years, if not decades, for the truth to surface. I wouldn't put it past the USA, the UK has killed people abroad and we still have 70 years to wait until the David Kelly files are released - so I wouldn't put it past the UK either.
the David Kelly files... come off it...
can you give and example where either the UK or US has used nerve agent or a radioactive isotope to assassinate someone in a foreign country we're ostensibly supposed to be at peace with?
That's all too specific really.. The UK has used chemical weapons in WW1 and WW2, we are a world leader in their manufacture and have tested them, in secret, on our own servicemen - only telling the truth when people died, and that took years to come out also.
I do think that Russia poisoned Litvinenko, so I'm not saying that Russia are saints, but you seem to think that the UK are holier than thou when I can assure you they are not.
We have stocks of Novichok, Borris told us that a day or to after the 'attack'. You can bet that if there are any theoretical nerve agents, like Novichok was, US/UK/France/Iran/Israel/etc are going to try and make it. Russia, as far as I know, have shut down their nerve agent programs that was overseen by the OPCW something like 20 years ago yet the UK still have theirs going at Porton Down which is less than 6 miles from Salisbury.
Also, the UK put a gagging order(DMSA notice) on the press reporting Pablo Miller(who also lives near Salisbury) into the frame, he was Skripals handler when he was a agent of MI5/6 - all of which ties Skripal to the Trump dodgy Dossier via Mr Christopher Steel and his company Orbis(Pablo Miller worked for orbis). It's a very tangled web for sure.
I do think that Russia poisoned Litvinenko, so I'm not saying that Russia are saints, but you seem to think that the UK are holier than thou when I can assure you they are not.
We have stocks of Novichok, Borris told us that a day or to after the 'attack'. You can bet that if there are any theoretical nerve agents, like Novichok was, US/UK/France/Iran/Israel/etc are going to try and make it. Russia, as far as I know, have shut down their nerve agent programs that was overseen by the OPCW something like 20 years ago yet the UK still have theirs going at Porton Down which is less than 6 miles from Salisbury.
Also, the UK put a gagging order(DMSA notice) on the press reporting Pablo Miller(who also lives near Salisbury) into the frame, he was Skripals handler when he was a agent of MI5/6 - all of which ties Skripal to the Trump dodgy Dossier via Mr Christopher Steel and his company Orbis(Pablo Miller worked for orbis). It's a very tangled web for sure.
Well it wasn't via poisoning but we did drone strike people in allied Pakistan without thier permission.
And killed a few civilians as collateral
Actually, you'll find no-one used chemical weapons in the European battlefield during WW2 (apart from Nazi gas chambers)
We'll need some citation on that one, I think you have conflated that we are a major arms manufacturer, not chemical weapons manufacturer
I shouldn't think anyone thinks that
That isn't done without their permission.
Yes it was, the Pakistani government were very outspoken against it.
The UN investigators comments on the issue
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/15/us-drone-strikes-pakistan
Don't think we got permission for the Osama bin Laden raid either..