Fuel price discussion thread (was ‘chaos’)

Greebo said:
combination of two things - how much the last load of fuel has cost and how much the local competition is charging. Hence prices can go up and down and up again in the same day.
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They must get really good prices on the fuel as they are both anywhere from 3p to 6p per litre cheaper than the other petrol stations that I pass

I am honestly quite surprised that one of them is so cheap as it is just off the A1(M), and more often than not, petrol anywhere near a motorway is usually a lot more expensive
 
TheCSSDoctor said:
They must get really good prices on the fuel as they are both anywhere from 3p to 6p per litre cheaper than the other petrol stations that I pass

I am honestly quite surprised that one of them is so cheap as it is just off the A1(M), and more often than not, petrol anywhere near a motorway is usually a lot more expensive
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Thing is from the refineries the price to different customers hardly varies by more then a penny or so. The 3 to 6p difference is purely that garage deciding not to price gauge their customers. fact is petrol is currently less than £1.30 per litre, duty and VAT paid, the rest is just gross profit margin. It used to be petrol stations were happy with 2-3p per litre profit on petrol and 4-6p on diesel but now that its more like 16p on petrol and 20p+ on diesel. Plenty of scope for some petrol stations to undercut the big boys by 6p and still be making more money than their ever had

I notice it with my local village petrol station. Small and only goes through a tanker load of fuel per week so 20,000l. They were always expensive but obviously local and convenient and only petrol station for miles around. Currently i dont think they have changed their normal markup but now some weeks they are cheaper than the big supermarkets 25 miles away so they are now selling much more fuel.
 
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earlier refd govt report had had a lot of details on Machiavellic fuel price setting algorithms https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/road-fuel-review/road-fuel-review
and relative buying powers of supermarkets/nons, supermarkets have sufficient volume to renegotiate regularly.

An analysis conducted in Sainsbury’s/Asda suggested that prices at a given PFS will be lower in the presence of an additional supermarket competitor when located 20 minutes away in terms of drive-time. Prices will also be lower in the presence of an additional non-supermarket competitor, but only when located within 5 minutes’ drive-time, meaning that supermarkets constrain prices at a given PFS even when they are located further away than non-supermarket competitors.[footnote 76] Further, supermarket PFSs had a larger effect on fuel prices than non-supermarket PFSs. For example, within a 5-minute drive-time, the impact of 1 additional supermarket PFS was around 13 times that of an additional non-supermarket PFS, with the former lowering fuel prices at the PFS under consideration by 0.75%, and the latter only 0.06%
 
jpaul said:
earlier refd govt report had had a lot of details on Machiavellic fuel price setting algorithms https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/road-fuel-review/road-fuel-review
and relative buying powers of supermarkets/nons, supermarkets have sufficient volume to renegotiate regularly.

An analysis conducted in Sainsbury’s/Asda suggested that prices at a given PFS will be lower in the presence of an additional supermarket competitor when located 20 minutes away in terms of drive-time. Prices will also be lower in the presence of an additional non-supermarket competitor, but only when located within 5 minutes’ drive-time, meaning that supermarkets constrain prices at a given PFS even when they are located further away than non-supermarket competitors.[footnote 76] Further, supermarket PFSs had a larger effect on fuel prices than non-supermarket PFSs. For example, within a 5-minute drive-time, the impact of 1 additional supermarket PFS was around 13 times that of an additional non-supermarket PFS, with the former lowering fuel prices at the PFS under consideration by 0.75%, and the latter only 0.06%
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Liked for use of ‘Machiavellic’
 
.. because it would be triple locked ? ie luxurious.

Doobedoo said:
^ doesn’t really explain much in regard to the current situation.
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read it, several factors identified.
  • The retailer spread will include recovery of costs that retailers incur. These include the operating costs of running a forecourt, and – because they are not separately measured in the available data – any transportation costs between the refinery and the forecourt, together with any additional payments made to independent wholesalers (see above). Petrol retailers told us that many of these costs have risen over the past 12 months. Several retailers drew particular attention to rises in fuel transportation costs (driven by the high price of diesel, together with driver shortages and resulting salary increases),[footnote 30] wages for forecourt staff (driven by increases to the National Minimum Wage and National Living Wage), utility bills (driven by high gas and electricity prices), rising theft from forecourts, and higher interchange fees levied by debit and credit card scheme operators.

e: if the supermarkets were cross-subsidising the cheap/19p xmas vegetables & meat deals by the premium on petrol, would that be so unethical (make sure your fridge is full)
 
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Relatively new Asda station in town, £1.47.9 for boggo Unleaded. Not half a mile away, Sainsbury's at £1.51.9. 4ppl which is a decent enough difference on a 50L fill. SOme supermarkets are clearly taking extra profit, likely to try and offset a drop in takings due to the cost of living, but Asda was absolutely heaving earlier this evening.
 
MissChief said:
Relatively new Asda station in town, £1.47.9 for boggo Unleaded. Not half a mile away, Sainsbury's at £1.51.9. 4ppl which is a decent enough difference on a 50L fill. SOme supermarkets are clearly taking extra profit, likely to try and offset a drop in takings due to the cost of living, but Asda was absolutely heaving earlier this evening.
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They are that Sainsburys was £1.53 until today when they dropped it to £1.49 for UL, Morrisons three miles down the road has been at 1.49 for at least a week now those two are always fighting it out between them Sainsburys has finally caved in. Its also £1.53 at the Shell station in town and thats always amongst the most expensive as a rule but they've all been pretty much the same of late even the super, super expensive independent thats open all night is only £1.55 its always been at least 10p a litre more for years. Supermarket prices are really inflated.
 
jpaul said:
read it, several factors identified.
  • The retailer spread will include recovery of costs that retailers incur. These include the operating costs of running a forecourt, and – because they are not separately measured in the available data – any transportation costs between the refinery and the forecourt, together with any additional payments made to independent wholesalers (see above). Petrol retailers told us that many of these costs have risen over the past 12 months. Several retailers drew particular attention to rises in fuel transportation costs (driven by the high price of diesel, together with driver shortages and resulting salary increases),[footnote 30] wages for forecourt staff (driven by increases to the National Minimum Wage and National Living Wage), utility bills (driven by high gas and electricity prices), rising theft from forecourts, and higher interchange fees levied by debit and credit card scheme operators.

e: if the supermarkets were cross-subsidising the cheap/19p xmas vegetables & meat deals by the premium on petrol, would that be so unethical (make sure your fridge is full)
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Ok so how has that changed since Covid hit? We were initially told petrol prices have risen because wholesale price has risen. Fine.

But wholesale has has dropped back to where it was but fuel is still artificially high. It has nothing to do with Brussels sprouts otherwise supermarket petrol stations would be undercut by regular stations.
 
Doobedoo said:
Ok so how has that changed since Covid hit? We were initially told petrol prices have risen because wholesale price has risen. Fine.

But wholesale has has dropped back to where it was but fuel is still artificially high. It has nothing to do with Brussels sprouts otherwise supermarket petrol stations would be undercut by regular stations.
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As long as there isn’t a massive difference in prices most drivers will still go where it’s convenient to do so. Doing your shopping at Sainsburys? Just get petrol while you’re there, it’s only 2p a litre more so they’ll pay it for convenience.
 
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