Gang of 12 'allegedly' rape British Citizen in Cyprus

Thekwango said:
I wonder how some of the posters in this thread would have reacted if this was a story about a girl/woman who decided she wanted to smash her face of a brick wall repeatedly and 12 fellas stood round watching it and recording it without any one of them thinking, ‘this isn’t gonna be much craic for this lass when she sobers up in the morning, we should really put a stop to it’

would that be more likely to raise hackles about their behaviour? Is it ok what they did because she was (no idea) a bike? Because she’s a lively sort do her rights get thrown in the bin?
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People would probably react completely differently, because it's a completely different situation.
 
String said:
You aren't, you're simply being facetious and not just to me. As @Thekwango pointed out, it's reflecting really badly.
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Tell me what was facetious about my question to you? Absolutely zilch. You're just avoiding a direct answer as you know the path it will take you. Instead of admitting that, you're just rambling.
Thekwango said:
Catch yourself on.
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Few weeks early.

Thekwango said:
I wonder how some of the posters in this thread would have reacted if this was a story about a girl/woman who decided she wanted to smash her face of a brick wall repeatedly and 12 fellas stood round watching it and recording it without any one of them thinking, ‘this isn’t gonna be much craic for this lass when she sobers up in the morning, we should really put a stop to it’

would that be more likely to raise hackles about their behaviour? Is it ok what they did because she was (no idea) a bike? Because she’s a lively sort do her rights get thrown in the bin?
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Reaching a bit buddy.

Also, who has said to throw her rights in the bin? No one, I feel you are fighting your own argument.
 
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Thekwango said:
I wonder how some of the posters in this thread would have reacted if this was a story about a girl/woman who decided she wanted to smash her face of a brick wall repeatedly and 12 fellas stood round watching it and recording it without any one of them thinking, ‘this isn’t gonna be much craic for this lass when she sobers up in the morning, we should really put a stop to it’

would that be more likely to raise hackles about their behaviour? Is it ok what they did because she was (no idea) a bike? Because she’s a lively sort do her rights get thrown in the bin?
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You're comparing having sex with smashing your face against a brick wall repeatedly, as if those two things were the same sort of thing. That's weird and frankly rather disturbing.

I doubt if there are any people in this thread who would react the same way to a woman having sex and a woman smashing her face against a wall. Not even you, the person who made the comparison.

As for the incident itself, I don't know enough about it to make a decision either way. We're getting third hand skewed information and that's not enough to make a decision on. But I am quite sure that sex is really quite different to repeatedly smashing your face against a brick wall.
 
robgmun said:
But that wasn't they were on trial for, there could be a follow-up trial on that, but in the meantime concentrate on the question at hand.
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Astoundingly, most people are capable of thinking about more than one thing at once.
 
NVP said:
You're just avoiding a direct answer as you know the path it will take you. Instead of admitting that, you're just rambling
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Your question has been answered, is there a word or phrase in particular that you're struggling with? Feel free to ask for assistance if you're struggling to process any of it, that's why we have conversations like this.

For the avoidance of doubt, this was your question:

NVP said:
What did they do?
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An obtuse attempt by you to be clever and facetious as you are well aware of the events, but nevertheless I provided a detailed answer, which is quoted below (again).

String said:
This is my personal opinion, based on personal experience. What the dozen young men did was vile, regardless of the young woman's consent. I can empathise more accurately with the men because I am a man, I am heterosexual and I was once their age. I have consumed alcohol and drugs at their age, I have been on lads holidays in Magaluf. I have had sex with strangers I have literally just met in a bar under these conditions. There is no way I would be in a queue with 11 of my friends, waiting for my turn to sexually interact with a drunk teenager, and not question the acceptability of what was going on. My very first thought would be to question the capacity for decision making with regards to the teenager involved. Were drugs and alcohol influencing her judgement? Mental health? This is all on the assumption that the teenager was consenting - if she wasn't, then clearly it's a no brainer.

To be clear; I am saying that these men were not victims and that's regardless of the consent from the teenager involved. It was abuse of a person, abuse of their position and anonymity within a gang of youths. It was taking vile advantage of a situation, and it was unacceptable. They sailed so close to the realms of acceptability that consent could arguably be considered impossible in that situation. They are getting a free pass here, and I'm calling it out.
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NVP said:
You completely ignore theirs but hold value to hers?
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What is "theirs" here? Their original set of differing claims, or the altered version they coalesced on after meeting their high powered lawyer flown over from Israel?

Their version of events is wildly improbable on the face of it; hers isn't. Her version is supported by the physical evidence; theirs isn't. They have demonstrated bad character even if the version they claim to be true is; she hasn't. There is record of their discussing her in an ugly and aggressive fashion beforehand; she told her friends she was meeting the one she met.

That's before you get to the ridiculously shonky manner in which the Cypriot Police have behaved.
 
With the GoFundMe busting through the £125k barrier and still going strong, and the strong language from the UK government, it's nice to see that the few usual suspects on this thread seem to be very much in the majority.

Glad to see the tour company that arranged her holiday has cancelled all bookings to Ayia Napa too.
 
String said:
An obtuse attempt by you to be clever and facetious as you are well aware of the events,
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Well this was the reason I asked my question and the point I was hoping you'd identify yourself - we do not know anything, it is all alleged. Your comments are all based off an untrustworthy testimony and exclude the comments of anyone else involved. You say others are being obtuse yet you are the one wearing the blinkers.

You honestly think the entire Cypriot institution involved with this case is hiding the gang-rape of this girl?

Mr Jack said:
What is "theirs" here? Their original set of differing claims, or the altered version they coalesced on after meeting their high powered lawyer flown over from Israel?
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Either or both, up to you. So far it's simply her word is truth, even when exposed as false.
Mr Jack said:
Their version of events is wildly improbable on the face of it; hers isn't
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I would suggest hers is also, that's partly why we are in this situation. But please elaborate on the issues you have with theirs.
 
NVP said:
Reaching a bit buddy.
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probably, but the sentiment is same (see below)
NVP said:
Also, who has said to throw her rights in the bin? No one, I feel you are fighting your own argument.
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sorry i was more referring to the cypriot police apparent handling of her interview rather than anyone in here, though there may well be a few posters who probably would.
Angilion said:
You're comparing having sex with smashing your face against a brick wall repeatedly, as if those two things were the same sort of thing. That's weird and frankly rather disturbing.

I doubt if there are any people in this thread who would react the same way to a woman having sex and a woman smashing her face against a wall. Not even you, the person who made the comparison.
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yea it is a bit of a stretch and the situations are completely different but the crux of the point is the same. would you stand idly by and record what was happening on your phone or would you try and intervene in a situation that seemed a bit off - and don't try and tell me a 19 year old girl looking for a 12 way wouldn't appear a bit off.
maybe i am different to most people. if i see a person in a situation they may later regret, whether that be drink related or otherwise, i would intervene. i wouldn't stand idly by and record what was happening and then 'leak' it over the internet. if i see a person smashing their head against a brick wall i'm going to step in and try and assist. if a woman enters my group of friends company and proceeds to lead that group down the path of a multi-knob free for all, i'm going to try and intervene. that said thankfully most of the people i know would probably look at her like she was off her head.
NVP said:
It's what @Thekwango calls his abs :D
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sadly the abs haven't been a brick wall in many many years. now they are more bouncy castle. and for clarity, i'd do **** all if i saw someone smashing their head against a bouncy castle :p
 
Mr Jack said:
I've already given the reasons why her position is the more believable. Perhaps you'd like to address some of those points?
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Points being physical evidence and a bunch of lads horny group chat?

The physical evidence is vaginal tearing? That's similar to the hyoid, whether voluntary, forced or self-inflicted similar damage can occur.

"Ugly and agressive" were the terms used to describe their conversation? Who says that other than an ignorant sensationalist. Lads convos can be pretty crass. Do you think those students a few years ago actually went around raping their peers?

Now answer my question, what's up with their version to make it less likely than hers?
 
NVP said:
Well this was the reason I asked my question and the point I was hoping you'd identify yourself
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Why couldn't you just say that, why do you have to turn it into a form of combat?

NVP said:
we do not know anything, it is all alleged. Your comments are all based off an untrustworthy testimony and exclude the comments of anyone else involved.
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What are you talking about, my comments are based on the fact 12 young men had sex with one woman in a hotel room on holiday and filmed it. Are you saying that isn't beyond doubt? If so, I'm more than happy to retract.

NVP said:
You honestly think the entire Cypriot institution involved with this case is hiding the gang-rape of this girl?
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No, I'm not saying that at all. Not once have I said that, nor even alluded to that. I've specifically stated that the point I am making does not rely on whether or not she was raped.

You have repeatedly asked me to answer your question, but bizarrely you seem to have refused to read the answer each time it's posted.
 
String said:
What are you talking about, my comments are based on the fact 12 young men had sex with one woman in a hotel room on holiday and filmed it. Are you saying that isn't beyond doubt? If so, I'm more than happy to retract.
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Yeah, one of the alleged guys has already proven he wasn't there by providing a timestamped photo of himself in bed with his partner...
 
Then I'm happy to retract, it was 11 guys. On that basis, it changes nothing else that I have said, my opinion hasn't changed in light of this numerical subtraction.
 
String said:
A snidey post from the back seat of the bus with your cheerleader in support, you're so impressive. :rolleyes:

Zzz
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Cheerleader? Did that all by myself baby! Well...you did it since it was you that's just shown yourself up to be full of crap.
 
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