Gang of 12 'allegedly' rape British Citizen in Cyprus

String said:
I have made it clear that there is no requirement for evidence of consent for me to conclude that what the 12 youths did was vile.



I have made it clear that I am saying what the 12 youths did was unacceptable. If you want to continue using the word "wrong" then it's your choice of words, not mine.



I have not claimed she didn't consent, neither have I claimed that she did. It is impossible for me to say whether or not she consented. I said, and I quote, "If she consented and enjoyed the experience then she wouldn't have went to the police to report it as rape".
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You do understand that wrong and unacceptable are interchangeable, don't you?

And again...you're still incorrect when you're asserting she wouldn't report something later that had been agreeable to her at an earlier time.
 
Mr Jack said:
Prove what? The claim of the boys and the Cypriot Police is that they filmed her without her consent. They then shared a clip online. That's illegal and immoral. What are you asking me to prove?
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That the version of events is as you say it was.
 
Of what relevance is the enjoyment of the experience? I've consented to things, sexual and non-sexual, that I've not enjoyed - just because I've not enjoyed them though I haven't chastised anyone else involved.
 
NVP said:
Theres no answer to my questions in there. What is it that 12 boys have done which you describe as vile.
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The answer is there, you're just being obtuse. I'll spell it out for you: I'm asking you to lose the infatuation with her consent and consider their consent. Her consent is open to question, theirs isn't.

String said:
This is my personal opinion, based on personal experience. What the dozen young men did was vile, regardless of the young woman's consent. I can empathise more accurately with the men because I am a man, I am heterosexual and I was once their age. I have consumed alcohol and drugs at their age, I have been on lads holidays in Magaluf. I have had sex with strangers I have literally just met in a bar under these conditions. There is no way I would be in a queue with 11 of my friends, waiting for my turn to sexually interact with a drunk teenager, and not question the acceptability of what was going on. My very first thought would be to question the capacity for decision making with regards to the teenager involved. Were drugs and alcohol influencing her judgement? Mental health? This is all on the assumption that the teenager was consenting - if she wasn't, then clearly it's a no brainer.

To be clear; I am saying that these men were not victims and that's regardless of the consent from the teenager involved. It was abuse of a person, abuse of their position and anonymity within a gang of youths. It was taking vile advantage of a situation, and it was unacceptable. They sailed so close to the realms of acceptability that consent could arguably be considered impossible in that situation. They are getting a free pass here, and I'm calling it out.
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Mr Jack said:
So you accept that, even if the boys version is true, they behaved illegally and immorally?
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I think the morality of what they did is subjective and irrelevant. As for the legality of recording and sharing the video I'm not sure what the laws of Israel or Cyprus have to say about that. Either way we're discussing whether they're guilty of rape or not.
 
Dis86 said:
I think the morality of what they did is subjective and irrelevant. As for the legality of recording and sharing the video I'm not sure what the laws of Israel or Cyprus have to say about that. Either way we're discussing whether they're guilty of rape or not.
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I dunno, I think establishing their bad character is relevant. Either way, you asked.

Since the Cypriot authorities failed to investigate properly, guilt is difficult to establish. But given the existence of injuries consistent with rape, exist testimony of mental trauma, the messages from the girl when she was detained without her lawyer for over 8 hours until 2am and whilst on heavy meds in apparent violation of her Human Rights, the dodgy "confession" not written by an English speaker despite claims of the Cypriot Police officer who also claimed journalists had planted evidence in the room, etc. then its easy to conclude her conviction is unsound. Throw in the total lack of counter evidence beyond a dodgy "confession", considering the prior likelihood of events, and the many other dubious Cypriot cases and the conclusion most consistent with events is surely that she was gang raped and then stitched up by a corrupt police force.
 
String said:
Clearly, that's not a view shared by everyone in this discussion.
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indeed. this is not a fun thread to keep on top of. some of the views on display are quite disturbing though probably a lot is internet bravado (or at least i hope it is)

anyone who thinks their actions, specifically the videoing and 'leaking' of it (her consent or lack thereof to a 12 man rodeo is an aside to this) are anything other than disgusting and vile needs to have a good hard look at themselves, or stop typing bs on the internet.
 
Thekwango said:
anyone who thinks their actions, specifically the videoing and 'leaking' of it (her consent or lack thereof to a 12 man rodeo is an aside to this) are anything other than disgusting and vile needs to have a good hard look at themselves, or stop typing bs on the internet.
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Hey now, sex isnt just the ladies moment, perhaps the ones who recorded it wanted to keep memories?

Mr Jack said:
Throw in the total lack of counter evidence beyond a dodgy "confession",
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You completely ignore theirs but hold value to hers?
 
Some of these posts are mighty crass and not very patriotic (where's all that Britishness after Brexit gone?) either.
 
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I wonder how some of the posters in this thread would have reacted if this was a story about a girl/woman who decided she wanted to smash her face of a brick wall repeatedly and 12 fellas stood round watching it and recording it without any one of them thinking, ‘this isn’t gonna be much craic for this lass when she sobers up in the morning, we should really put a stop to it’

would that be more likely to raise hackles about their behaviour? Is it ok what they did because she was (no idea) a bike? Because she’s a lively sort do her rights get thrown in the bin?
 
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