Geforce GTX1180/2080 Speculation thread

[B1gbeard]

I was after one of the shorter boards due to case size. The EVGA SC seemed about the right size but comes in at between £1250-1300 I think.

What I was referring to about mentality was the need certain people seem to have for slinging insults at each other, nothing to do with my personal opinion that people pre-ordering at these prices are giving the nod to NV that the new prices are acceptable, which they are not IMO. It’s got nothing to do with whether people can afford it or not.

In fact I’d be surprised if there’s anyone that actually wants one that couldn’t find a way to get one, whether on CC or finance, etc, rather than a straight debit transaction. In the grand scheme of things it’s a graphics card, not a new car purchase or a mortgage. Just a very expensive graphics card.

Unfortunately if it was just a graphics card people, the same people generally, wouldn't keep going on about pre-orderers being kitten eating devils. There is more to it for that group. Probably that whether they can't afford it or are not buying it on principle, it still irks them that someone's is going to be bigger than theirs and need to vent that frustration in some way (not everyone mind).

 

[andybird123]

I was after one of the shorter boards due to case size. The EVGA SC seemed about the right size but comes in at between £1250-1300 I think.

What I was referring to about mentality was the need certain people seem to have for slinging insults at each other, nothing to do with my personal opinion that people pre-ordering at these prices are giving the nod to NV that the new prices are acceptable, which they are not IMO. It’s got nothing to do with whether people can afford it or not.

In fact I’d be surprised if there’s anyone that actually wants one that couldn’t find a way to get one, whether on CC or finance, etc, rather than a straight debit transaction. In the grand scheme of things it’s a graphics card, not a new car purchase or a mortgage. Just a very expensive graphics card.

That is the nub of the problem, a lot of people are unhappy about the prices but then they were unhappy with vega, 1080ti, 980ti, titan, etc. In fact all the way back to at least the 8800ultra. Yet sales figures tell a completely different story. I mean you can go on to any hobbyist forum and there will be people talking about how brand x is overpriced, yet that brand sell more than anyone else.

I know its not what anyone wants to hear, but that is how supply and demand works - if there wasn't the demand then prices would drop, the fact they aren't dropping says nvidia (and AMD who haven't even vaguely tried to undercut nvidia in the last few generations) are happy with the level of demand.

Similarly people have been saying consoles will kill PC gaming, but that doesn't appear to be any where closer to true than it was 10 years ago either.

Things in the UK are particularly bad with the exchange rate too, but that again is something people are going to have to get used to for the time being.

 

[crinkleshoes]

I don't think people are really thinking of Nvidia's proprietary extensions (RTX) to Microrsoft's DirectX 12's RT are rubbish. It's more that it is just not market ready, at least not with this generation. Nvidia has so far shown us that their 2080Ti does not do full scene RT at any acceptable gaming frame rate, even at 1080p. Instead, RTX RT lays effects on top of a rasterized scene, and even then uses a lot of guess work (denoising) due to lacking the required grunt, before adding in Deep Learning Super Sampling in an attempt to smooth things out.

It's a huge cost increase for bodged RT support, hence so many including myself will skip this generation. Those who have some professional use will adore this card.

(edited to change 'botched' to 'bodged')

In one of the videos where EA/DICE were talking about BFV & the 2080ti, they stated the card managed 60 fps @ 4k with all the bells and whistles turned on... hope that's true.

 

[Gregster]

I was after one of the shorter boards due to case size. The EVGA SC seemed about the right size but comes in at between £1250-1300 I think.

What I was referring to about mentality was the need certain people seem to have for slinging insults at each other, nothing to do with my personal opinion that people pre-ordering at these prices are giving the nod to NV that the new prices are acceptable, which they are not IMO. It’s got nothing to do with whether people can afford it or not.

In fact I’d be surprised if there’s anyone that actually wants one that couldn’t find a way to get one, whether on CC or finance, etc, rather than a straight debit transaction. In the grand scheme of things it’s a graphics card, not a new car purchase or a mortgage. Just a very expensive graphics card.

Yep, nothing worse than people slinging insults and indeed, people are lapping up the pre-orders as you say (hmmmmm ) Also remember that this isn't a "life changing/needful purchase" and something we buy for enjoyment. I spend fortunes in the pub but should I spend it on a new car purchase instead? (no chance, as I like the pub far too much)

 

[melmac]

There's already been some good posts about the 1080p 30-60fps thing being pretty much nonsense, people are still going to spin it every chance they get though as they love wallowing in negativity.

Except it's not nonsense. The developers themselves are coming out with these figures and telling us that's what they are aiming for. It's not negativity, it's just the way it is if you want full Real Time Ray Tracing. Did you read the report about BAttleField V? To get it running at acceptable frame rates at 1080p they had to turn off some of the Ray Tracing features and replace them with Rasterised versions. And to get better frame rates they are going to have to use more tricks all at the expense of Real Time Ray Tracing. For 4K they are talking about Ray Tracing the scene in 1080p and applying it at 4K.

Whether you want to accept it or not frame rate is going to tank when you use Ray Tracing and we are a few years away from full real time ray tracing. This is just a start and you are completely underestimating how much grunt you need for RT if you think 60fps at 1080p is bad.

 

[SupraWez]

I am really not that bothered about RT performance, a decent performance hike with it disabled is all I'm interested in.

 

[melmac]

In one of the videos where EA/DICE were talking about BFV & the 2080ti, they stated the card managed 60 fps @ 4k with all the bells and whistles turned on... hope that's true.

Nah, mate, sorry, it's definitely not true. That was from Tech Radar, think they completely made it up as the Video they reference is 1080p

 

[Silent_Scone]

Digital Foundry played the Rotterdam map and spoke directly with the reps on site, they also changed the in-game resolution to 4K and managed 20-30FPS with ray tracing enable (note this is obviously an incomplete version of the game).

 

[Ayahuasca]

Except it's not nonsense. The developers themselves are coming out with these figures and telling us that's what they are aiming for. It's not negativity, it's just the way it is if you want full Real Time Ray Tracing. Did you read the report about BAttleField V? To get it running at acceptable frame rates at 1080p they had to turn off some of the Ray Tracing features and replace them with Rasterised versions. And to get better frame rates they are going to have to use more tricks all at the expense of Real Time Ray Tracing. For 4K they are talking about Ray Tracing the scene in 1080p and applying it at 4K.

Whether you want to accept it or not frame rate is going to tank when you use Ray Tracing and we are a few years away from full real time ray tracing. This is just a start and you are completely underestimating how much grunt you need for RT if you think 60fps at 1080p is bad.

I haven't argued against any of that, I was simply pointing out the negativity from people popping into the thread posting "herp derp it can only do 1080p at console frame rates" like that's going to be the universal figures across all titles when we're at the stage of very little optimisation work carried out and on initial driver sets.

Even without full blown RT, games are still going to look nicer and play at similar framerates to those using AMD and previous nVidia cards with none of those features available. If most of your time is spent in multiplayer competitive titles then yes, you probably won't care but it's going to transform environments and atmospheres in single player games.

 

[Zeed]

You can get a 2080ti for £1049. Still not your budget but it's not £1250.

Also why is it a shame that people are pre-ordering? If it's someone's hobby and they have the money why should they not pre-order just because someone else can't afford it? You mention people's mentality in your opening and then say why are people lapping up pre-orders.

Totally spot on.
Some people here behave like 2080ti is something that they cant live without like its as important as having food.

Some like spending money on holidays some like spending money on restaurants some go for week at ibiza where 300ml water is 10 quid nowadays in a club.

For ne hardware is a hibby and i hate holidays. Few months ago iw spent 500 quid to remap my car. Gained 20hp was it good value?? Hellllll no do I enjoy it?? Helll yeaaaa.

 

[Dan82]

I like the way some people think their opinion = what the world thinks.

I think it's great that were seeing new tech being pushed in games and even developers are lapping it up, its going to help them decrease development time.

Its amazing that so many complain about console parity and every time Nvidia introduces something to the table that makes a difference your got a corner of the internet that makes so much noise to trash it.

I personally don't mind gaming at 30 or 60 fps in single player games as long as the image quality is good, even at 1080p my LG 4k has a good enough scaler that makes that resolution look pretty decent. I been gaming since the 80s and remember playing quake at 10~fps and still get enjoyment out of it.

I think people forget the cost of tech is increasing, smart phone prices are now over 1k but no one complained about that.

Another thing to bare in mind is niche hobbies are generally expensive! Has anyone seen the cost of Hi-Fi ? 3k amp is classed as mid range ??? I don't see enthusiasts going insane in Hi Fi forums at those prices.

I'm begging to think we leave in an entitled society where people have been spoiled, unintentially or not.

I always remember gamers who were in competitive scene turn gfx settings on low 10 years ago on the best cards available, what changed ?

I'm don't usually reply in forums but it's been frustrating reading some of posts here, sure I don't have to read it but I am a enthusiast and use this forum as a regular source of info and gets to the point where I need to say my bit lol

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

I think people forget the cost of tech is increasing, smart phone prices are now over 1k but no one complained about that.

Smart phones don't have to cost anywhere near 1k, mine was just a little over £100 for a huawei one. Camera could be better but it's not terrible by any means, though it's fine for watching videos and surfing pages.

I always remember gamers who were in competitive scene turn gfx settings on low 10 years ago on the best cards available, what changed ?

People will also probably turn off Ray Tracing features in certain games/maps, especially if you can see everything inside a room with it disabled, whereas it would be almost completely dark in there like in one of those demos if turned on.

 

[HRL]

Yep, nothing worse than people slinging insults and indeed, people are lapping up the pre-orders as you say (hmmmmm ) Also remember that this isn't a "life changing/needful purchase" and something we buy for enjoyment. I spend fortunes in the pub but should I spend it on a new car purchase instead? (no chance, as I like the pub far too much)

Hahaha. I hope they’re strong performers when they do come out, for your sake.

Probably just my luck that I was wanted more of the same this gen rather than new tech like RTX and I’ve been holding out for ages as in my eyes the 1080Ti wasn’t quite good enough.

Who knows, if the prices come down once 10 series stocks are depleted I may still get one. Just want a worthy upgrade from my RX480 that’ll handle 4K/60 perfectly.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Smart phones don't have to cost anywhere near 1k, mine was just a little over £100 for a huawei one.

Graphics cards don't either if you only want basic performance/functions out of it.

 

[jigger]

I like the way some people think their opinion = what the world thinks.

I think it's great that were seeing new tech being pushed in games and even developers are lapping it up, its going to help them decrease development time.

Its amazing that so many complain about console parity and every time Nvidia introduces something to the table that makes a difference your got a corner of the internet that makes so much noise to trash it.

I personally don't mind gaming at 30 or 60 fps in single player games as long as the image quality is good, even at 1080p my LG 4k has a good enough scaler that makes that resolution look pretty decent. I been gaming since the 80s and remember playing quake at 10~fps and still get enjoyment out of it.

I think people forget the cost of tech is increasing, smart phone prices are now over 1k but no one complained about that.

Another thing to bare in mind is niche hobbies are generally expensive! Has anyone seen the cost of Hi-Fi ? 3k amp is classed as mid range ??? I don't see enthusiasts going insane in Hi Fi forums at those prices.

I'm begging to think we leave in an entitled society where people have been spoiled, unintentially or not.

I always remember gamers who were in competitive scene turn gfx settings on low 10 years ago on the best cards available, what changed ?

I'm don't usually reply in forums but it's been frustrating reading some of posts here, sure I don't have to read it but I am a enthusiast and use this forum as a regular source of info and gets to the point where I need to say my bit lol

The problem is we have a market full of very overpriced cards that all offer more or less the same experience.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

10+ years ago we had games like Crysis and cards like the 8800GT/GTS which offered a fair chunk of the previous high end card performance for a lower price. This was not uncommon. For RT to gain more traction outside the initial push it really needs a 60 series card to be able to run effects to some playable degree,and I think it will only be at 7NM we will start to see this.

Also people have been complaining about smartphone pricing - people are keeping phones longer and longer according to market research and many high end phones are not selling as well as people think,but the increasing margins compensated. Plus phones are usually bought on contract which is a free loan.

Maybe JHH was joking about monthly installments for GPUs.....or was he!





It makes me wonder if rental plans for GPUs might end up being a thing.

 

[Dan82]

I think smart phones usually last a user 2-3 years before they upgrade, this should be the case for gfx cards but unfortunately were enthusiasts and this is our hobbies so we do end up upgrading more often than we should.

For me a fixed 30 or constant 60 fps is a playable frame rate for me and considering were adding RT effects in the mix, it's a good start.

I think my 8800gts got average 25-30fps on crysis, motion blur made it appear smoother, I was more than happy considering the visuals.

 

[jigger]

10+ years ago we had games like Crysis and cards like the 8800GT/GTS which offered a fair chunk of the previous high end card performance for a lower price. This was not uncommon. For RT to gain more traction outside the initial push it really needs a 60 series card to be able to run effects to some playable degree,and I think it will only be at 7NM we will start to see this.

Also people have been complaining about smartphone pricing - people are keeping phones longer and longer according to market research and many high end phones are not selling as well as people think,but the increasing margins compensated. Plus phones are usually bought on contract which is a free loan.

Maybe JHH was joking about monthly installments for GPUs.....or was he!





It makes me wonder if rental plans for GPUs might end up being a thing.

PCP deals on the next Nvidia range

 

[jigger]

I think smart phones usually last a user 2-3 years before they upgrade, this should be the case for gfx cards but unfortunately were enthusiasts and this is our hobbies so we do end up upgrading more often than we should.

For me a fixed 30 or constant 60 fps is a playable frame rate for me and considering were adding RT effects in the mix, it's a good start.

I think my 8800gts got average 25-30fps on crysis, motion blur made it appear smoother, I was more than happy considering the visuals.

Well it's taken Nvidia that long to get these cards out.

 

[Dan82]

I think they just trying to make the launch go as smooth as possible, I can't imagine the amount of extra code that's gone onto the drivers for the the chip to work with the new tech.

I can see the performance graphs coming back with each driver release. I'm also willing to bet that GeForce experience is going to be intergrated with the driver for the 400 release.

Maybe I mis-heard but in the conference, wasn't it mentioned GeForce experience will download the dlss profile for individual games or something along those lines.