German Grand Prix 2010, Hockenheimring Circuit - Race 11/19

NathanE said:
Which is pretty much what I was alluding to. There is a 'recipe' in F1 fans minds as to what constitutes an illegal team order. Austria 2002 and Germany 2010 (and Singapore 2008) have proven to be the only recent ones that scored particularly well with fans.
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Yeah, I'd go along with that.
 
So FIA have rules but they are quite happy for them to be breached. $100K fine is a nonsense. If they had wanted to send a message, reverse the points awarded to Alonso/Massa.
 
NathanE said:
Not really the same. Heikki was in a low position. It wasn't a swap between 1st and 2nd places.

Nothing was said because it appears to have been only Austria 2002 and Germany 2010 that have left a sour taste in fans mouths. There is a certain recipe for what constitutes a souring "team order" by fans and the FIA needs to get whatever comprises this recipe onto paper so it can be made formal in the 2011 regulations.
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So your saying the same thing that happens in a position which doesn't determine where one ends up on the podium is condoned? But one which directly effects the podium does?

I can't agree with that, you either accept it goes on and continue racing.
It's a team sport afterall.

Or you do what you suggested at the end of your post, Do something to stop teams doing it in the first place.

"Massa, Fernando is faster than you"
"Massa, Let him by"

It may not be the same thing, but for those of us who do watch F1 regularly know its the exact same.
 
el_dazza said:
I just don't see how you'll ever stop teams doing this.
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They wont. Team orders are part of every single sport in the land, including F1 and to prevent a team issuing orders is nigh on impossible.

Ferrari's problem is that they made it blatantly obvious, the fans/media picked up on it and now the powers that be must get involved.

Had the fans/media not kicked up such a fuss, the situation may not even have reached the stage where the Stewards got involved.

Something which Brundle alluded to was that when the overtake happened, the Stewards seemed uninterested. Once the race was over and the media began kicking up a fuss, then the Stewards decided to take interest.
 
Smedley clearly didnt want to give Massa that message it was utterly cringeworthy. Pre-season my money was on Massa doing the championship and I saw this as a rise to power, but noooooooooo :(
 
NathanE said:
In a championship that was already forever tainted by FIA interventions. The fact that Ferrari conducted a team order in that race barely registered on the scale of interference that went on that year.


Not really the same. Heikki was in a low position. It wasn't a swap between 1st and 2nd places.
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Irrelevant. Team orders are team orders irrespective of what else has happened in the race. The FIA are turds for deciding they want to now enforce a rule which has COUNTLESS times gone unpunished in the past.

E.g. today Force India will be also investigated for a pit stop infringement. That didnt register in scale compared to the team orders episode.
 
I'll leave the Ferrari are evil and FIA are their friends conversation to drag on a bit before celebrating the Ferrari 1-2...

Force India's race does need to be mentioned...
They were utterly attrocious.

How did they get it so wrong?
 
Also from Wiki:

For example, this (edit: 'this' as in team orders) has sometimes been achieved as easily as a team getting on the radio to the slower driver and pointing out that his teammate is quicker. The slower driver then lets the quicker driver through without the need for an overt "directive" from the team.

However a few years later at the 2005 United States Grand Prix, Schumacher was being challenged for the lead by Barrichello but the two were ordered to preserve their cars to the end of the race and settle into a steady pace. This effectively meant that Barrichello wasn't able to challenge Schumacher and assured Schumacher's and Ferrari's only victory of the season. But whether this was favouritism towards Schumacher or just a cautious approach to an easy victory is debatable.
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I'll be content with the fine, but if Ferrari get more at the WMSC, then this season can get stuffed.
 
No idea, but it's a very rare mistake! I don't think that one should be punished, they realised their mistake and told the drivers to box very quickly after, think it was the very next lap in fact.
 
el_dazza said:
Rubens nearly took him out in a 6 car field, which they crushed. No brainer, that one...:confused:
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Really was emphasising the above the example tbh.
But yes I know what you mean.

But despite what you and I or anyone think and whether it was a no brainer or not, it still constitutes an intervention by the team to limit competition which is what the FIA are anal about now it seems.
 
pathetic punishment for ferarri. embarrassing day for the fia and f1.

very boring race, i think the only exciting part was the start, even in the pit stops the only thing that happened was button jumping webber.
 
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