German Grand Prix 2010, Hockenheimring Circuit - Race 11/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
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yep or any other way which is not blatant. Although radio is stil damming evidence.
Rules are rules, doesn't matter if you think team orders are right or wrong. Personally I can seeboth sides and don't really care which way, but again rules are rules.
Mclaren and fuel saving is not the same
A) it's in provable
B) they have been saying save fuel at every race, today they told Lewis to save fuel but not button, was that team orders to get button ahead?
Peole also forget we are talking hundreads of millions per team, each with the best lawyers, things have to be provable, ferrar is the only one to make that mistake.
Soldato
at the end of the day all it does is spoil races for us fans but then again at the end of the day its a business for these guys and they will do anything they can to win, £100,000 is a pitence to ferrari should have been £10m or something that would stop them or others doing it again!
Better still they should have just stipped both drivers points
Better still they should have just stipped both drivers points
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
What rubs me up about this..
Massa was ahead (like it or not), had defended at least one overtake attempt and for the first time since his crash, looked half decent.
Then Ferrari screw him for 5 or 6 extra points on the anniversary of that crash (which nearly ended his life and career) because they want Alonso as their new posterboy.
Yes, team orders have existed since forever, but to effectively strip your driver from a win and demoralise him for the sake of a few points (200+ remaining this season).. They couldn't have played it worse.
£100,000 fine is a joke too. That's the sale of a F430 and won't even register on their radar as a punishment.
If they had a heart they would have let him race. A least if Alonso passed him then he can say it was a fair race.
Massa was ahead (like it or not), had defended at least one overtake attempt and for the first time since his crash, looked half decent.
Then Ferrari screw him for 5 or 6 extra points on the anniversary of that crash (which nearly ended his life and career) because they want Alonso as their new posterboy.
Yes, team orders have existed since forever, but to effectively strip your driver from a win and demoralise him for the sake of a few points (200+ remaining this season).. They couldn't have played it worse.
£100,000 fine is a joke too. That's the sale of a F430 and won't even register on their radar as a punishment.
If they had a heart they would have let him race. A least if Alonso passed him then he can say it was a fair race.
Man of Honour
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Given the tiny fine given, looks like it os OK for everyone else to have obvious team orders again.
The only driver they could strip of points would be massa, how would that be fair. Besides they have already set a precedent with Hamilton of not punishing the driver for a error made by the team or cheating.
They couldn't strip alonso because technically he did nothing wrong.
At the very worst they will lose constructors points.
Associate
Oh please. They gave him a brand spanking new 2 year contract a couple of weeks ago even though he has been well below par this year.
I think Ferrari have shown more than enough gratitude towards Massa tbh. If he doesn't like it, he should have declined the new contract and gone to drive for Renault or another midtable team. I don't feel sorry for Massa at all. He must know what Ferrari are like. Equality doesn't really happen.
Of course it would be fair, he and the team broke the rules.
Hamilton was stripped of hid points, or are you talking about a diffrent incident.
They could also strip alonso as he is part of the team, as well as ban Ferrari for several races.
While Turkey was an obvious example of two drivers holding station I don't buy the 'button is unsporting and hamilton re-took his position at a flick of his fingers' idea.
They were bringing the cars home, not racing, hamilton slowed up too much at a corner and button had to go by. The alternative would be to look as dodgy as Ferrari did today.
Hamilton wasn't too happy but button didn't make any attempt to defend his position at the end of the straight - it isn't obvious, but he handed the position back.
Hamilton is a great driver but Button is no mug and to go back past that easily it had to be mutual.
That said - it was great TV and to be perfectly honest if F1 wants more viewers they should stage it all like WWF, it'd be great 'racing'.
Soldato
lol at the McLaren fanboys. 
seriously loving how some are getting on their high horse about team orders, seriously what a joke. some talk about punishement. how about mcLaren being scrapped from F1 for not only cheating but committing industrial espionnage which, in my book, should have ended up in criminal proceedings, not some points lost in a championship.
team orders are a reality. wether you choose to be selective of when you feel it is ok or not. seriously some grey areas in some of your arguments. if you don't want team orders then have 1 car per team, simple as.
think FIA need to stop being hypocrites, as well as some of the fans
PS Smedly is an idiot, he could have been more professional. i can appreciate he doesn't agree with the situation, but then put your money where your mouth is and resign!
seriously loving how some are getting on their high horse about team orders, seriously what a joke. some talk about punishement. how about mcLaren being scrapped from F1 for not only cheating but committing industrial espionnage which, in my book, should have ended up in criminal proceedings, not some points lost in a championship.
team orders are a reality. wether you choose to be selective of when you feel it is ok or not. seriously some grey areas in some of your arguments. if you don't want team orders then have 1 car per team, simple as.
think FIA need to stop being hypocrites, as well as some of the fans
PS Smedly is an idiot, he could have been more professional. i can appreciate he doesn't agree with the situation, but then put your money where your mouth is and resign!
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151c eh..
Well, the current record for that is $100'000'000 and exclusion from the constructors championship.
Lying under 151c is 3 race suspended ban and points taken away - as seen last year.
Ferrari handled all the possible things wrong this race.
Well, the current record for that is $100'000'000 and exclusion from the constructors championship.
Lying under 151c is 3 race suspended ban and points taken away - as seen last year.
Ferrari handled all the possible things wrong this race.
Soldato
not really, they got a 1 and 2 which they desperately needed and alonso is still in the mix for the championship.
so now we have a championship with 3 teams and 5 drivers with a chance. it's win win
But possibly the wrong 1 - 2 finish.
It was quite funny on the 5live coverage. Crofty was almost speechless about how obvious it was.
If Ferrari were even slightly more subtle then they wouldn't be in a cacky now.
Their preferred method of old was to tell the driver they wanted to move over that the brakes were overheating and they needed to ease off. Now it's just - Chap is faster than you. Not even as subtle as a yellow suit at a funeral.
You mean the criminal proceedings against 4 team members that were dropped by the Italians? Must have been compelling evidence to get 4 English team members charges dropped, in an Italian court, against God/Ferrari *delete as applicable.
*They went all the way with Toyota essentially building a F2002 and using some modified Ferrari simulation software. Two guys got 12 and 16 months behind bars iirc.
No-one at Renault was up in front of the Judge even though they had McLaren data, had McLaren data on their servers and in their backups ad discussed said data in meetings - and freely admitted it.
I'm sorry I meant when Mclaren got caught with Ferraris plans, they said it was unfair to penalise the drivers Hamilton and Co for something out of their control(Which we know is BS and the drivers knew about it) Which is why the team got fined and not banned. That was the official line.
Well thats no different to alonso then (yes we know he's a shadey ****) if a team mate decides to slow infront of him thats not his problem. Alonso is a slippery one, all his interviews where spot on. "I thought he had a gear box problem" etc etc.
Again where were the calls to ban massa and ferrari when he moved over for Kimi in 2007.
Notice that when they want their drivers to hold station, they say, "Conserve Fuel" or "Save Fuel".
When they genuinely want their drivers to conserve fuel, they actually give them a setting, which they have to press on their steering wheel. I think today, Hamilton's engineer said that he has to go on "G2" or something along those lines.
In any case, it was fairly obvious what was going on at Turkey, when Button was told in no uncertain terms to "conserve fuel", when he was attempting the overtake on Hamilton.
Anybody would have to be seriously gullible to believe that McLaren were giving anything but a team order at that point.
It's this gullibility which is frustrating me...I can't believe that people can be so simple.
Too right.
If I was working for a company, and as a result of my actions the team is now facing the law courts/hearing/sanctions, I would either be asked to resign or would be sacked.
Of course, there are some people who probably hail him as some form of hero, even though he basically screwed his own team today.
Why do you talk so much rubbish. They gave no such setting today. they said save fuel, or you will have to use G8 at the end of the race. However no setting was given to conserve fuel.
It is not Gullibility, it is you bending the fact and it not being PROVABLE, something Ferrari was not, It is very provable what was said and a case to be made.
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