German Grand Prix 2010, Hockenheimring Circuit - Race 11/19

[realscot]

Why do you talk so much rubbish. They gave no such setting today. they said save fuel, or you will have to use G8 at the end of the race. However no setting was given to conserve fuel.

A bit harsh there Acid, I knew what sunama meant, and he was making a valid point, there is a difference between telling a driver to "save fuel" and "possibly use G8" or "switch to G?"
That was just a typical OCUK "belittle what the other guy just said" post in a classic TWFox style.

 

[Glaucus]

Maybe, but he keeps saying the same things, even when they have been shown to be wrong, it gets very annoying.

No setting was given for Hamilton to switch to and no settings have been given in other races. But he maintains it's all team orders.

Just like he maintains he knows exactly what happened between Webber and vettle, despite no radio info or public speakings. yet he knows exactly what happened and he thinks he can prove it.

We all might speculate what happened, but it is not provable and no certain.

 

[Dave M]

A bit harsh there Acid, I knew what sunama meant, and he was making a valid point, there is a difference between telling a driver to "save fuel" and "possibly use G8" or "switch to G?"
That was just a typical OCUK "belittle what the other guy just said" post in a classic TWFox style.

It's this gullibility which is frustrating me...I can't believe that people can be so simple.

If he's going to throw **** around he has to expect some of it to stick.

 

[Gav]

Too right.

If I was working for a company, and as a result of my actions the team is now facing the law courts/hearing/sanctions, I would either be asked to resign or would be sacked.

Of course, there are some people who probably hail him as some form of hero, even though he basically screwed his own team today.

If you worked for a company that asked you to knowingly break the law... would you do it and be happy about it?

 

[Demon]

There is a clear distinction between a driver making his own mind up, and deciding it's in the team's interest to allow the other driver through, i.e. if there is a huge points deficit, etc and being told in no real uncertain terms to change your driving habit and let the guy through.

I think drivers should be entitled to make their own minds up, there is no shame or anything untoward with someone being more of a team player and doing there little bit to get the team higher up the rankings, even if it's the WDC.
It's when the driver doesn't want to do this, that he shouldn't be forced.

And in this case, Ferrari clearly had to tell Massa to let Alonso through, being close enough on points etc, and being on the pace, It should have been his decision entirely, and clearly it wasn't.

 

[craig3000]

So F1 racing has now effectively turned into time trials I can't understand how some people support Ferrari's move, I really can't. Alonso is a complete arse.

 

[Guerrilla]

Can't help but feel for Massa, a win could have done wonders for him for the remainder of the season, i guess this will have the opposite effect now.

It's a shame Ferrari decided to make this decision, and more of a shame it's now blown up as a huge deal to the detriment of F1.

 

[Baboonanza]

I don't particularly have anything against team orders in most situations, but it really is damaging to the sport to have the race so blatantly fixed. Few people really care whether Button and Hamilton are told not to challenge each other or swap places in 4th/5th, but when it happens for 1st it gets in all the papers and it does damage F1s reputation as a competetive sport. There would have been an equal outcry if Red Bull or McLaren had done the same thing.

Ferrari should be severely punished for this, I'd go for stripping all of their WCC points personally, simply so that is doesn't happen again in such an obvious way.

 

[Dutch Guy]

Even though I think it's a stupid rule that can be broken easily the fact remains that this was too obvious and should be punished, the 100k is a joke but I guess they can still take away the constructor points and leave the driver points intact?

 

[Cavallino]

No setting was given for Hamilton to switch to and no settings have been given in other races.

I thought Hamilton was instructed during the race to switch to G8 or something and save some fuel? At least thats what I tohught.

 

[Duke]

I thought Hamilton was instructed during the race to switch to G8 or something and save some fuel? At least thats what I tohught.

I think it was 'save some fuel or we'll have to use G8 towards the end of the race'.

 

[Glaucus]

I thought Hamilton was instructed during the race to switch to G8 or something and save some fuel? At least thats what I tohught.

Nope, as above save fuel or we will have to use a diffrent engine map. As DC said fuel can be saved by not riding accelerator and brake at same time, slightly less revs etc.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I would settle for having their points stripped for the German GP.

 

[NathanE]

I would settle for having their points stripped for the German GP.

That won't happen as the hearing is a couple months away. They never alter race results from that far back!

It will either be a huge fine or a race ban. I am thinking a combination of both will be it. Providing Ferrari don't send a huge bribe in the direction of Jean Todt...

 

[Glaucus]

^
they can strip points but race results stand, I'm pretty sure that has happened before.


A race ban or striped of points wool be good, either it has to be enforced or you accept it is a team sport and remove the rule. We can't have the rule and not enforce it. Had to laugh at DC going those who bet should realise they can losse. They do but the odds and bets are based on the rules of the sport and those rules where blatantly broken.

 

[Moley]

One of the interesting things about this whole incident is that the pit will stations that the race engineers sit at have a little button marked "On Air". This button is always active throughout a race so the television companies can listen in and transmit conversations the the TV audience. However the teams can release the button to stop the conversation being sent to the TV company at any time - it's telling that Rob Smedley made damn sure that everyone heard his conversation...

 

[clv101]

The only thing I don't understand about this situation is why Ferrari weren't more subtle about it? There's a dozen different ways they could have engineered the swap without anyone suspecting a thing - even a slightly long pit stop would do it! Why were Ferrari so dumb about it?

I hope the team get excluded from the results this race (points stripped, at the very least constructor points stripped, but drivers kept or reversed) - for both breaking rules and for bringing the sport into disrepute. I'd expect a case can be made for both of those outcomes.

Finally, what exactly did the stewards issue for $100,000 fine for? Does that guarantee they did do something wrong, or can the WMSC overrule that decision?

 

[sunama]

If you worked for a company that asked you to knowingly break the law... would you do it and be happy about it?

If I agree to pass the message on, then I would do it correctly.
If I don't agree, then I would tell my bosses, that this is against the law and "I'm sorry, I cant do that". The employer can then ask someone else to do the dirty work.

What I wouldnt do, is agree to play ball (break the law, or similar), then balls it all up. Thats not the right thing to do to your employer.

 

[Sone]

will be interesting on the punishment, but being Ferrari will probably be even more leanient than Renault which twice had much worse incidents

 

[sunama]

Finally, what exactly did the stewards issue for $100,000 fine for?

Thats actually a good question.

The follow up question has to be that if the fine issued is for breaking the rule, can Ferrari then get another punishment for the same (rule breaking) offence? Surely, Ferrari could argue that they have already been punished once (by way of a fine) and that they should not be punished again, for the same offence?