GJ anti-vaxxers?!

[Mason-]

Part of freedom is the freedom to make bad/stupid decisions. On the other hand, not getting vaccinated can affect a lot of others, not just yourself. I think some of you are lacking empathy towards their views. This is the line between you deciding what's right for your children and what the state deems right for your children. Ultimately, you are free to raise your children as you see fit as long as it is lawful. So people change the laws... I think rather than mandating it, the government should do more to educate these people into realising that vaccinations are good not just for your children but for the good of everyone else. Physically enforcing it seems like something Aldous Huxley would have written about.

Some people will be too stubborn/stupid/AlexJones (unfortunately even if you then physically enforced vaccination I doubt they'd be great parents anyway) to be convinced even with irrefutable evidence thrust under their nose. As long as this is a very very small minority (like has probably been the case for the last 50 years) then we should be able to tick along just fine.

e: changed sympathy to empathy

 

[Moothead2]

Good on them!

Bringing back the freedom to CHOOSE.

Unfortunately all those kids or people who can't be vaccinated don't get to choose if they die because some ******* moron thought Google science was more worthwhile listening to than universally approved medicine.

 

[Minstadave]

Part of freedom is the freedom to make bad/stupid decisions. On the other hand, not getting vaccinated can affect a lot of others, not just yourself. I think some of you are being a bit unsympathetic to their views. This is the line between you deciding what's right for your children and what the state deems right for your children. Ultimately, you are free to raise your children as you see fit as long as it is lawful. So people change the laws... I think rather than mandating it, the government should do more to educate these people into realising that vaccinations are good not just for your children but for the good of everyone else. Physically enforcing it seems like something Aldous Huxley would have written about.

Some people will be too stubborn/stupid/AlexJones (unfortunately even if you then physically enforced vaccination I doubt they'd be great parents anyway) to be convinced even with irrefutable evidence thrust under their nose. As long as this is a very very small minority (like has probably been the case for the last 50 years) then we should be able to tick along just fine.

If you work with the public for long enough you realise that some just don't have the mental facilties to be educated and make decisions that are reasoned. It's not a very very small minority either. These daft things go in trends. People do what is fashionable/in vogue rather than sensible.

 

[Mason-]

If you work with the public for long enough you realise that some just don't have the mental facilties to be educated and make decisions that are reasoned. It's not a very very small minority either.

Then I have a bit more faith in the general populous, in that most would when provided with evidence conclude that vaccinations are a societal good. I think the evidence that this is the case is the fact that the number of people not choosing to vaccinate their kids is a very very small minority. And we haven't all died.

 

[CosmicClown]

Unfortunately all those kids or people who can't be vaccinated don't get to choose if they die because some ******* moron thought Google science was more worthwhile listening to than universally approved medicine.

LOL

Universally approved medicine....

You mean big Pharma....

Which have interests....

to make more

and more

and more

money.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/big-p...he-multibillion-dollar-vaccine-market/5503945

 

[Minstadave]

Then I have a bit more faith in the general populous, in that most would when provided with evidence conclude that vaccinations are a societal good. I think the evidence that this is the case is the fact that the number of people not choosing to vaccinate their kids is a very very small minority.

I meet them pretty regularly. Most weeks I'd meet people refusing Vitamin K for their newborns. Atleast every month I meet parents who haven't had their children vaccinated. I couldn't give you a number but it's a fair few.

Yet other things that have no evidence for whatsoever become extremely fashionable. Tongue-tie division has been popular for the last few years and is utterly pointless in all but a handful of cases.

 

[Minstadave]

LOL

Universally approved medicine....

You mean big Pharma....

Which have interests....

to make more

and more

and more

money.

Vaccination isn't interesting to big pharma, a one off vaccination isn't where the money is at.

 

[Mason-]

I meet them pretty regularly. Most weeks I'd meet people refusing Vitamin K for their newborns. Atleast every month I meet parents who haven't had their children vaccinated. I couldn't give you a number but it's a fair few.

Yet other things that have no evidence for whatsoever become extremely fashionable. Tongue-tie division has been popular for the last few years and is utterly pointless in all but a handful of cases.

Just seen that you're a paediatrician. Are you not more likely to deal with sick children rather than healthy ones thus making the slice of the population you see more biased towards the sick?

 

[Minusorange]

Then I have a bit more faith in the general populous, in that most would when provided with evidence conclude that vaccinations are a societal good. I think the evidence that this is the case is the fact that the number of people not choosing to vaccinate their kids is a very very small minority. And we haven't all died.

The planet is supposedly only capable of sustaining a population of 10billion humans

By 2025 we'll be at 8billion
2100 we'll be at 11billion

The world needs some forms of natural population control (or a world war) otherwise there'll be far greater issues than little Jimmy on chemo dying from measles because Bev and Kev decided they didn't want their kids immunised

If we keep more people alive for longer we'll soon run out of resources to sustain everyone but the bleeding hearts who aren't capable of having their own responsibility and prefer to freely hand it off to government can't see the forest for the trees and are happy to lead people down far worse paths than the path they protest against

 

[Minstadave]

Just seen that you're a paediatrician. Are you not more likely to deal with sick children rather than healthy ones thus making the slice of the population you see more biased towards the sick?

It would skew things slightly, absolutely, but I'm not seeing usually seeing the non-vaccinated children for the diseases they have failed to be vaccinated for.

 

[Mason-]

The planet is supposedly only capable of sustaining a population of 10billion humans

By 2025 we'll be at 8billion
2100 we'll be at 11billion

The world needs some forms of natural population control (or a world war) otherwise there'll be far greater issues than little Jimmy on chemo dying from measles because Bev and Kev decided they didn't want their kids immunised

If we keep more people alive for longer we'll soon run out of resources to sustain everyone but the bleeding hearts who aren't capable of having their own responsibility and prefer to freely hand it off to government can't see the forest for the trees and are happy to lead people down far worse paths than the path they protest against

I'm inclined to agree with you. But as our technology gets better and better what are we to do? Enforce China style family limitations? Go full "Brave New World"? Let uneducated parents (and those unwilling to be educated) choose not to vaccinate their children, which may have the desired effect you mention in controlling the population, but may have the other effect of wiping us out. When was the last time we had something akin to the great plague? It will make nations and the people within them act selfishly. We haven't really seen things like that since nuclear weapons became a reality. Not good.

 

[Nasher]

TBH anyone not vaccinated should be excluded from free movement around the EU. If you want to go abroad, get vaccinated or get turned around. It puts other people at risk.

 

[Minusorange]

I'm inclined to agree with you. But as our technology gets better and better what are we to do? Enforce China style family limitations? Go full "Brave New World"? Let uneducated parents (and those unwilling to be educated) choose not to vaccinate their children, which may have the desired effect you mention in controlling the population, but may have the other effect of wiping us out. When was the last time we had something akin to the great plague? It will make nations and the people within them act selfishly. We haven't really seen things like that since nuclear weapons became a reality. Not good.

We've survived all nature has thrown at us thus far

The weak died, the strong survived as is the natural order of things

The only threat to our survival is ourselves

 

[StriderX]

The planet is supposedly only capable of sustaining a population of 10billion humans

By 2025 we'll be at 8billion
2100 we'll be at 11billion

The world needs some forms of natural population control (or a world war) otherwise there'll be far greater issues than little Jimmy on chemo dying from measles because Bev and Kev decided they didn't want their kids immunised

If we keep more people alive for longer we'll soon run out of resources to sustain everyone but the bleeding hearts who aren't capable of having their own responsibility and prefer to freely hand it off to government can't see the forest for the trees and are happy to lead people down far worse paths than the path they protest against

The planet can sustain an infinite number of people as long as we aren't dumb and consume too much as we happily do in the West, it's more about the density of people making it extraordinarily difficult for a social species such as our own to exist without climbing mental illness, as even though some people might disagree, the worth of every individual drops as soon as someone else is born above replacement.

We've survived all nature has thrown at us thus far

The weak died, the strong survived as is the natural order of things

The only threat to our survival is ourselves

Incredibly authoritarian view point, i won't even bother godwinning who thought similarly as a matter of policy. The fact is some people who dont survive might be physically weak, but may have traits or abilities far beyond the general populace, and letting them die because they aren't macho enough is sad and boring.

 

[Nasher]

It can't sustain us with the number we have now really.

Living space is running out, food and clean water supplies are under threat in places. The only way we will survive with increasing numbers is to move off-world.

The Earth has already seen a mass extinction due to one species becoming far to high in number. That time it was a plant.

 

[Mason-]

The planet can sustain an infinite number of people as long as we aren't dumb and consume too much as we happily do in the West, it's more about the density of people making it extraordinarily difficult for a social species such as our own to exist without climbing mental illness, as even though some people might disagree, the worth of every individual drops as soon as someone else is born above replacement.

'Infinite' is going a bit too far. There will come a point where the population will get too high. And another thing is, if you ask someone why we need an increasing population, there's very little good answers people can give.

Also Calhoun's behavioural sink theory might be interesting reading for you. People extrapolating it to humans is a stretch but it's still interesting.

We've survived all nature has thrown at us thus far

The weak died, the strong survived as is the natural order of things

The only threat to our survival is ourselves

It's just simply not true. With modern medicine etc, the weak survive too.

 

[Minusorange]

It's just simply not true. With modern medicine etc, the weak survive too.

I'm talking about previous epidemics/plagues where we didn't have modern medicine, modern medicine while good for humans, I don't think is good for the planets eco system and natural balance of things and ultimately I fear we will make this planet uninhabitable through our arrogance and ignorance.

The planet can sustain an infinite number of people

No it cannot, there's only a finite amount of fresh water and there's only a finite amount of crops

The Earth "could" sustain more than 11billion if people were restricted to a single bowl of rice/grains a day and a few glasses of water, but who's going to want to live life like that ?

 

[Orionaut]

It's just simply not true. With modern medicine etc, the weak survive too.

And pass on their weakness to their children.

Consider the question...

"Why do Women have broader hips than Men?"

Spoiler: Hint

And no, the answer is NOT because they have to be able to give birth to babies.

 

[StriderX]

I'm talking about previous epidemics/plagues where we didn't have modern medicine, modern medicine while good for humans, I don't think is good for the planets eco system and natural balance of things and ultimately I fear we will make this planet uninhabitable through our arrogance and ignorance.



No it cannot, there's only a finite amount of fresh water and there's only a finite amount of crops

The Earth "could" sustain more than 11billion if people were restricted to a single bowl of rice/grains a day and a few glasses of water, but who's going to want to live life like that ?

If we will it we can desalinate the entire ocean if we want, that's infinite water if recycled. and for Crops... Vertical hydrofarms wont be too far away in the future, and for all things mineral related, we aren't entirely too far away from strip mining asteroids if we seriously wanted to.

You keep thinking inside this tiny little box ignoring the technological advances that make populace increase possible in the first place, of course it won't matter anyway, time has indeed run out on our ability to stop the climate from being inhospitable for many people, it's just a matter of waiting for the inevitable disaster(s) now.

 

[Mason-]

If we will it we can desalinate the entire ocean if we want, that's infinite water if recycled. and for Crops... Vertical hydrofarms wont be too far away in the future, and for all things mineral related, we aren't entirely too far away from strip mining asteroids if we seriously wanted to.

You keep thinking inside this tiny little box ignoring the technological advances that make populace increase possible in the first place, of course it won't matter anyway, time has indeed run out on our ability to stop the climate from being inhospitable for many people, it's just a matter of waiting for the inevitable disaster(s) now.

And what effect would desalinating the entire ocean have on other wildlife?