Golf Thread

Pigeon_Killer · 13 Apr 2013 at 12:20

Iwan Thomas said:
*BREAKING NEWS* Tiger Woods once again caught dropping his balls in the wrong place #tbag

manic111 · 13 Apr 2013 at 13:44

That seems bizarre to me. He's only incurred the two shot penalty after signing the scorecard, so it's not really his fault that he signed an incorrect scorecard. If I declared on a form that I'd never been caught speeding, signed it and sent it off, and then the next day got a speeding ticket through the post, you still wouldn't say that my form was incorrect.

He should incur the 2 shot penalty. What did the cut end up being? Was it +4 or +5? If it was +4, he'd miss out anyway, but at least it would be for the right reasons.

EDIT: Oh no he wouldn't, not with it at all today!

Owenb · 13 Apr 2013 at 14:02

manic111 said:
That seems bizarre to me. He's only incurred the two shot penalty after signing the scorecard, so it's not really his fault that he signed an incorrect scorecard. If I declared on a form that I'd never been caught speeding, signed it and sent it off, and then the next day got a speeding ticket through the post, you still wouldn't say that my form was incorrect.

He should incur the 2 shot penalty. What did the cut end up being? Was it +4 or +5? If it was +4, he'd miss out anyway, but at least it would be for the right reasons.

EDIT: Oh no he wouldn't, not with it at all today!

Golf is very strict(maybe even old fashioned given that it's completely unnecessary). If you sign a score card with the incorrect score then you are out of the tournament. If Woods is judged to have failed to penalise himself correctly on hole 15 then he won't take part today.

Pigeon_Killer · 13 Apr 2013 at 14:20

How much input do the TV networks have? I know they dictate some American sports so how would disqualifying Woods effect their viewing figures?

this_is_gav · 13 Apr 2013 at 14:40

2 stroke penalty for Woods, so he starts at 1 under.

They've done everything they can to keep him in the tournament.

majestyk · 13 Apr 2013 at 14:58

Most club golfers know if they sign for a wrong score card they are disqualified. No ifs or buts.
Don't all pairings have a rules official with them on the course? Tiger should have consulted him.
Woods is a phenomenon, and in the US TV ratings are far higher when he is playing.

Seems like the USGA/PGA bottled it.

In 1968 Roberto De Vicenzo lost The Masters for signing for an incorrect score.

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/masters08/columns/story?columnist=sobel_jason&id=3324061

Azza · 13 Apr 2013 at 15:10

If he didn't know he breached the drop rules therefore incurring the penalty before signing the score card and he's proved that as it were then he can't be DQ'd.

Azza · 13 Apr 2013 at 15:35

this_is_gav · 13 Apr 2013 at 15:36

Azza said:
If he didn't know he breached the drop rules therefore incurring the penalty before signing the score card and he's proved that as it were then he can't be DQ'd.

He said himself that he decided to "give himself a couple of yards". I'm guessing he didn't decide that several hours after he did it.

By the sounds of it, the basis for the 'investigation' (for want of a better word) are his quotes.

One More Solo · 13 Apr 2013 at 15:37

I'm not sure how ignorance of the rules can be used as an excuse for breaking them. He admitted he dropped the ball further back to gain an advantage and the rule that the committee have used to keep him in is not at all applicable here. The spirit of the rule appears to be if a player honestly believed they dropped the ball in the correct place but TV subsequently shows they didn't, a penalty would be applied but not a DQ. Woods KNEW he didn't drop the ball in the right place because he admitted as much. It's a total fudge to keep him in.

mmj_uk · 13 Apr 2013 at 19:44

"I went down to the drop area, that wasn't going to be a good spot," said the 37-year-old.

"And it was a little bit wet. So it was muddy and not a good spot to drop.

"So I went back to where I played it from, but I went two yards further back."

Any other player and I suspect they would have been DQ, Tiger is too commercially important and this decision has made a mockery of the whole tournament... I hope he does what Faldo says and pulls out on in respect of the game but by the sound of it he's not that kind of person.

brendy · 13 Apr 2013 at 20:04

mmj_uk said:
Any other player and I suspect they would have been DQ, Tiger is too commercially important and this decision has made a mockery of the whole tournament... I hope he does what Faldo says and pulls out on in respect of the game but by the sound of it he's not that kind of person.

So if you had broken a speed limit, declared that you know you had slightly broken or at least, your speedo was reading a little high although wernt sure 100% of the law of that road, subsequently got a 3 point punishment, would you surrender your license and ask for a ban? Dont think so.
Faldo etc have their opinions, they are not on the committee so their views mean dick all.

The guy as much as I am indifferent to him, never lied, took his punishment on his chin and is getting on with it.
If there is any issue, it is with the Masters committee as they are duty bound to let a player know they are under investigation and then also their decision while play is still under way as it gives the player a chance to correct his scorecard and prevent him from signing for an incorrect score. Tiger never got this courtesy so the most they could do was issue the 2 shot penalty and get on with it.
Lets not forget also, Tiger never got any advantage out of the situation, the rules of golf are primarily designed to prevent unlawful advantage and level playing field for all competitors.

mmj_uk · 13 Apr 2013 at 21:09

brendy said:
So if you had broken a speed limit, declared that you know you had slightly broken or at least, your speedo was reading a little high although wernt sure 100% of the law of that road, subsequently got a 3 point punishment, would you surrender your license and ask for a ban? Dont think so.

Totally irrelevant.

1> it's a game.
2> the whole world have seen what has happened.
3> his reputation & the integrity of the sport is on the line.

You only have to watch the coverage to see this decision was commercially made, we're being shown more of Tiger playing than any of the leaders.

brendy · 13 Apr 2013 at 21:23

If you understand the rules (inc the newer 33.x) you will see that they could do this, regardless of how unpalatable you find it.

1. Its not a game, its a professional sport.
2.He declared it, the world hadnt even noticed.
3. He gained no advantage and took the ruling on the chin.

ElliorR · 13 Apr 2013 at 21:27

brendy said:
If you understand the rules (inc the newer 33.x) you will see that they could do this, regardless of how unpalatable you find it.

1. Its not a game, its a professional sport.
2.He declared it, the world hadnt even noticed.
3. He gained no advantage and took the ruling on the chin.

USGA said:
Rule 1

Tiger Woods can never be disqualified as the TV companies will be unhappy and may withdraw money from televising our sport

brendy · 13 Apr 2013 at 21:39

Nonsense Elliot, the masters committee are more aware/stubborn, they know that they are bigger than any player and like all other uspga comps, they do not pay appearance fees unlike european pga events.
Tiger was a virtual no show in 2012 (hasnt won it in 8 years) and thrived without him at the top of the leaderboard. Tiger wants the major events more than they need him as there are so many other great golfers out there.

Azza · 13 Apr 2013 at 23:43

Tomorrow is going to be so good.

booyaka · 14 Apr 2013 at 10:15

Actual since last year there has been a new ruling.

2 points to make here are

After being prompted by a television viewer, the Rules Committee reviewed a video of the shot while he was playing the 18th hole. At that moment and based on that evidence the committee determined he has complied with the rules.

First thing is I hate this stupid "trial by TV" nonsense. Why? It doesn't happen in any other sport so why should people phone in and complain about things and then it has to be reviewed?

The penalty of disqualification was waived by the committee under Rule 33 as the committee had previously reviewed the information and made its initial determination prior to the finish of the player's round.

So basically the rules officials reviewed the incident whilst he was still on the course at the 18th, and agreed that nothing was done wrong - subsequently in his post round interview he said he "dropped 2 yard further back" - this is the bit that caused the officials to review matters again.

So Woods signed his card in full compliance with the rules officials as they said that he complied with the rules, however after the admission in the press conference, they reviewed matters again. Under rule 33 - they couldn't disqualify him as at the time of signing his card - he was unaware that he had done anything wrong.

It was the right ruling after a wrong initial decision by the rules committee.

MikeTimbers · 14 Apr 2013 at 10:19

Strictly speaking, the Masters is an invitational event and they can do whatever they want.

booyaka · 14 Apr 2013 at 10:40

Played PGA Centenary Course at Gleneagles yesterday.

Good day out and good banter. Course was in very average condition due to ongoing drainage work and also the all the greens having been hollow cored and top dressed etc. Certainly wouldn't like to be paying the going rate of £150 a round per person!

Putting the condition of the course aside for a minute - I don't see it as a Ryder Cup venue at all. Very stretched out - from 6th green to 14th/15th must be about 2 miles. Nice looking surroundings but there is no clubhouse or anything around the 18th green. Certainly just didn't grab me as a "wow" venue at all. The kings course at Gleneagles has more of that for me.

Like I said - wasn't expecting great things having not hit a ball for 6 months but play ok considering with only 1 three putt the whole round.

Game all square going to the last - highlight of the day was the 18th, hit a good drive to the corner of the dog leg. Had 189 up hill to the centre of the green which is raised up with huge bunkers at the front and falls away to the left and right sides severely.

Hit a beauty of a rescue club that never left the pin and finished about 20 feet behind the pin. Just missed the eagle putt down the hill but a great birdie to finish and win the match!

Me with 1st swing in 6 months!

My ball on the 18th Par 5 in 2- along with a happy playing partner!

Some severe slopes and bunkers surrounding the 18th.