Good news for Scotland (and the rest of us)..

[Devilman]

The drug issue for me is a prime example of how policy and rules don't necessarily work across the entire UK, Drug policy remains a reserved issue dealt with by Westminster and not Holyrood.

There have been a number of initiatives that the Scottish Government have been keen to trial (safe consumption rooms for one) that have been flatly refused by the UK Government.

There is a drug problem in Scotland but given the Scottish Govt aren't allowed to do any of the things they have suggested (with cross party support for many) I'm not sure what else they can do.

That is a very valid point that I think should be reinforced and made a headline of.

If drug usage has increased so much and has become such a problem in Scotland, why have Westminster (And for the last 12 years) The Tories done nothing effective to counter it?

People need to stop trying to blame NS for something she ultimately had no control over, due the way Westminster likes to keep control.

 

[Quartz]

Given the **** up the Scottish government have made over alcohol, perhaps it's better that they haven't been able to experiment on drugs.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The drug issue for me is a prime example of how policy and rules don't necessarily work across the entire UK, Drug policy remains a reserved issue dealt with by Westminster and not Holyrood.

There have been a number of initiatives that the Scottish Government have been keen to trial (safe consumption rooms for one) that have been flatly refused by the UK Government.

There is a drug problem in Scotland but given the Scottish Govt aren't allowed to do any of the things they have suggested (with cross party support for many) I'm not sure what else they can do.

The thread is starting to read like a religious zealot denying the "existence" of evolution - clinging to a gap in the fossil record as evidence to the contrary.

No-one has claimed that Sturgeon or the SNP are perfect. As I said previously in the thread, those of us old enough to recall a time before the SNP dominance in Scottish politics don't need a university thesis to decide whether or not they have been a positive for Scotland - it's beyond doubt.

 

[n111ck]

The thread is starting to read like a religious zealot denying the "existence" of evolution - clinging to a gap in the fossil record as evidence to the contrary.

No-one has claimed that Sturgeon or the SNP are perfect. As I said previously in the thread, those of us old enough to recall a time before the SNP dominance in Scottish politics don't need a university thesis to decide whether or not they have been a positive for Scotland - it's beyond doubt.

Do you really lack the self awareness to realise that it is YOU that is acting like a zealot?

Youre saying that Sturgeon is great based on no evidence almost like its a question of faith for you..

 

[Bear]

I suspect that part of the problem is Scotland (generally) having a bigger problem with poverty and lack of opportunity leads more drug users to crime and / or hard drugs.

I dont think that is true, England has higher rates of poverty compared to Scotland. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51384174

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Do you really lack the self awareness to realise that it is YOU that is acting like a zealot?

Youre saying that Sturgeon is great based on no evidence almost like its a question of faith for you..

Living under their stewardship for over a decade is no basis for evidence, according to the chap who hasn't experienced a single policy they've implemented.

Absurd.

 

[n111ck]

Living under their stewardship for over a decade is no basis for evidence, according to the chap who hasn't experienced a single policy they've implemented.

Absurd.

Yes your anecdotal thoughts are irrelevant in a country of over 5m people.

In fact aren't you the one that chooses to spend months on end living on an oil rig rather than mainland Scotland?

 

[Richie]

lol the answer to question 1 is well known on here hence my banning from SC - hint I'm no leftie.

I'm not aware TBH.

my answer to question 3 demonstrates some pretty good things for us in England but not so much for you in Scotland lol

Unlike the crime levels per capita? It's 40% lower in Scotland than E&W.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...ng this time period the,just 52.4 by 2021/22.

Or child poverty rates which are higher in England than Scotland.
https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/blog/where-is-child-poverty-increasing-in-the-uk/

Can you see? Not every country is perfect and will outperform other countries in some areas whilst underperforming in others but you appear to be of the opinion that everything is worse in Scotland than in England which is patently untrue.

Yes/No?

 

[Dis86]

I'm not aware TBH.




Unlike the crime levels per capita? It's 40% lower in Scotland than E&W.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1030625/crime-rate-uk/#:~:text=During this time period the,just 52.4 by 2021/22.

Or child poverty rates which are higher in England than Scotland.
https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/blog/where-is-child-poverty-increasing-in-the-uk/

Can you see? Not every country is perfect and will outperform other countries in some areas whilst underperforming in others but you appear to be of the opinion that everything is worse in Scotland than in England which is patently untrue.

Yes/No?

Annoyingly that first one looks to be behind some sort of pay wall.

 

[n111ck]

I'm not aware TBH.




Unlike the crime levels per capita? It's 40% lower in Scotland than E&W.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1030625/crime-rate-uk/#:~:text=During this time period the,just 52.4 by 2021/22.

Or child poverty rates which are higher in England than Scotland.
https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/blog/where-is-child-poverty-increasing-in-the-uk/

Can you see? Not every country is perfect and will outperform other countries in some areas whilst underperforming in others but you appear to be of the opinion that everything is worse in Scotland than in England which is patently untrue.

Yes/No?

Says to me that tax payer money should be directed away from Scotland to England if anything.

Scotland has a tiny population but more English tax payers money per person so the poor outcomes under Sturgeon are inexcusable.

To be clear I never said everything was worse in Scotland I said 'Its interesting that some base their views seemingly on her performance at a few press conferences but completely ignore the hatred and division she presided over and the poor outcomes for Scotland as a whole over the last decade.'

 

[mburn_83]

Long past due - the last few scandals should have been enough to see half of the SNP resign.

 

[dougie06n]

Or child poverty rates which are higher in England than Scotland.
https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/blog/where-is-child-poverty-increasing-in-the-uk/

Well the £2000 per head a year more they get is not wasted then

 

[MissChief]

Scotland has a tiny population but more English tax payers money per person so the poor outcomes under Sturgeon are inexcusable.

Providing services in rural locations, of which Scotland has a great many more than England, costs more. That's why Scotland gets more money per person than England.

 

[dougie06n]

Providing services in rural locations, of which Scotland has a great many more than England, costs more. That's why Scotland gets more money per person than England.

And that is exactly why independence will be an issue

 

[katie279]

The point wasn't ideological.

An argument was presented that Nicola Sturgeon, who he hates (see thread for evidence) presided over a big increase in drug use.

Yet the tories, who presumably he voted for for the last decade, seeing as he loved Boris (evidence here: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...-strictly-no-referrals.18948056/post-35947949) have also presided over a big increase in drug use.

Which seems hypocritical to me.

Yes, that's fair - except you need to acknowledge that NS has presided over a greater increase in drug use. Now anyone with an ounce of analytical skill would say it's naturally much more complex than that - but what you can't say is NS has done well.

So it's not hypocritical from a statistical view - ie 'Boris' has done better on this singular data point, but it's flawed thinking to create a sole causal interpretation without further study. That said, there are pretty damning data points that do help draw correlations towards causation in many of the Scottish government decisions here.

But you're right to challenge the dichtomy here IMO

 

[katie279]

Providing services in rural locations, of which Scotland has a great many more than England, costs more. That's why Scotland gets more money per person than England.

As a Welsh person, I know what you mean, but it's more complex than that.

It's also the factoring of Scotland's economy is highly distributed, low scalability that means anything North of the Forth is a lower GDP value to the country anyway (excluding the oil and a few others of course).

None of this begrudges the Scottish anything, much like as a welsh person, I know that Wales (especially North Wales) is a very low GDP part of the UK where we don't pull our 'financial weight', but I don't begrudge Westminster or the English anything for this. We've certainly had our moments 'in the sun' - eg Coal, Gold, Slate etc where we disproportionately contributed more - this is one of the advantages being part of something bigger than our own parochial territories....!

 

[katie279]

It would be interesting to see the data across *all* drug types, not just "routine/prolonged use of illicit opiates and / or benzodiazepines".

I suspect that part of the problem is Scotland (generally) having a bigger problem with poverty and lack of opportunity leads more drug users to crime and / or hard drugs.

How many "functional drug addicts" do we think London has, with all it's coke sniffing bankers / politicians and party animals?

Interesting idea - although never realistically possible. Although this is really the point - ie when we talk about 'drug problems', it's the latter part of the syntax that's important - ie millionaires who are taking drugs, generally isn't a societal 'problem' as they generally are functional parts of society, contribute and deal with any problems they cause themselves (ie through private care, counselling, therapy etc).

Much like 'alcohol problems' don't encompass people who enjoy a glass of wine, only the violent/heavy binge drinkers who cause problems.

It's an interesting thought though - how much of Scotland's disproportionate drug problem is about the availability of drugs and how much about how people use them and/or the mental state/approach of those people.

Don't know, but interesting muse!

 

[katie279]

That is a very valid point that I think should be reinforced and made a headline of.

If drug usage has increased so much and has become such a problem in Scotland, why have Westminster (And for the last 12 years) The Tories done nothing effective to counter it?

People need to stop trying to blame NS for something she ultimately had no control over, due the way Westminster likes to keep control.

Do you really think that though? Ie Nicola Sturgeon had no control over the country, the allocation of spending, the moving of people out of poverty? This is all Westminster's fault??

 

[katie279]

Or child poverty rates which are higher in England than Scotland.
https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/blog/where-is-child-poverty-increasing-in-the-uk/

Can you see? Not every country is perfect and will outperform other countries in some areas whilst underperforming in others but you appear to be of the opinion that everything is worse in Scotland than in England which is patently untrue.

Yes/No?

Your general intent is true - ie all countries have pros and cons, but think we're talking about the legacy of NS

To take your data point, I'd say in this single respect:
- Labour significantly reduced it
- Salmond marginally reduced it
- Sturgeon increased it.

Obviously lots of other factors and/or excuses you can make, but one point you can't claim is that Sturgeon has either maintained or reduced it, on her watch, it's got worse.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Yes your anecdotal thoughts are irrelevant in a country of over 5m people.

In fact aren't you the one that chooses to spend months on end living on an oil rig rather than mainland Scotland?

Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant when gauging the impact a political party has had on the electorate - what nonsense is this? Seriously, what level of idiot would reject their eyes and ears in favour of an article written by an agenda driven journalist?

And the comment about my place of work - what on earth is that point you're trying to make? What straw are you clutching at there? You really are miles out of your depth with this conversation.

Yes, I work offshore. The same industry I worked in back in 2014 when friends where telling me about a secret oil field that the big bad English where hiding from us, a field so abundant in resources that it could fund independence for decades. Funnily enough I didn't need to read any articles about this oil field, because it was so secret that I'd been working on it's brownfield enabling projects for the previous 4 years - a reservoir so abundant that it's struggling to achieve even half of it's planned production almost 10 years on.

It's called anecdotal evidence for a reason. It has it's place, particularly when you're assessing the impact that party policy has had on the electorate - when you are the electorate! Oh, I wonder if it's raining outside. Will I check AccuWeather? BBC weather? Sean Batty? Maybe I could open the curtains and look.