Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [10 - 11th November 2012]

grimm said:
What if I said Liverpool?
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I'd report you for trolling

And no it wouldn't make a difference, I was sure it was United though, so who is it?

Loki said:
Agreed,

If you do sing that song you always run the risk of being called out as Anti-Hillsborough (if such a thing exists)

By the same token, opposing fans should be able to ask in a 'Foum' like this why Liverpool fans seem to think the club or the team is perceived to be treated differently from other clubs without having their words twisted also.
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Think Heysel would be included in the always the victim also the way certain fans behaved after it. Always nice being tarred by the brush of the minority.

Also what do you mean, ask in a forum like this why we think we are treated differently? (Not really sure if immensely **** refereeing/footballing body being a mess is being treated differently or just a plain joke of a system.) I mean as far as I'm aware no one asked tonight why we think that, someone just started with the 'victim complex' comment to someone who misinterpreted (i think) grims comment.
 
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Loki said:
...Be it Suarez being treated unfairly, Ref's being biased against Liverpool, More decisions go against Liverpool than for them etc.....
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Here's the problem with your theory Loki, the above applies to all sets of supporters yet we never hear this victim bs aimed at other clubs. Can you explain why some aim it at Liverpool supporters and not others if the reasons above were true?
 
BaZ87 said:
Here's the problem with your theory Loki, the above applies to all sets of supporters yet we never hear this victim bs aimed at other clubs. Can you explain why some aim it at Liverpool supporters and not others if the reasons above were true?
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Ask any Everton fan they will say Liverpool always get the decisions and I know that from first hand experience having to work with them. Ask any Spurs fan they will say Arsenal get all the decisions, ask any City fan and they will say Utd always get the decisions.

Again outside looking, the mindset in Liverpool fans does seem to have changed in the last two or three years. It does seem you have become a bunch of whiny moany lot who really do think there is an agenda against Liverpool Football Club and it's players. I don't know if this coincided with whole Evra - Suarez thing or not.

Why do fans use it against Liverpool ???? Because football fans mentality is playground mentality. They do it because they know it will get under your skin. Maybe the choice of words is inappropriate as does wind Liverpool fans up to the point of offending them. But as I implied in the post above, football fans will always use inflammatory words. I'm under no illusion that fans some will always use as a veild attack on Hillsborough and Heysel as Purdy correctly added. Yet there are others who will pull Liverpool fans up because at the moment the feeling is that there is no smoke without fire. Suarez gets badly treated by ref's in the eye's of LFC fans to everyone else he's on his arse at the first attempt and is a diver. So in light of that they will question the victim complex.

In as much as LFC find the 'Always the Victim' song offensive and for very good reason, then also the song, why it's sung and having a 'Victim Complex' for different reasons must be separated.

Fans are cruel and some will always use songs and chats like that for no other reason to be cruel. Some LFC fans will always think it's a hidden agenda. As in most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle of all that.
 
Loki said:
Again outside looking, the mindset in Liverpool fans does seem to have changed in the last two or three years. It does seem you have become a bunch of whiny moany lot who really do think there is an agenda against Liverpool Football Club and it's players. I don't know if this coincided with whole Evra - Suarez thing or not.
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Sorry, I don't buy into that. When Evra was banned for 4 games for the incident at Stamford Bridge we constantly had Utd fans complaining - sarcastically responding with 'ban Evra for 4 games' (the same way Liverpool fans will say ban Suarez for 8 games) when anything happened. When any side drops points and there's perceived to be poor decisions against them they'll complain and you'll find supporters still complaining about decisions from years back too.

Anybody with half a brain cell knows the victim stuff started and centres around Hillsborough and that's why it's seemingly only used against Liverpool.
 
BaZ87 said:
Anybody with half a brain cell knows the victim stuff started and centres around Hillsborough and that's why it's seemingly only used against Liverpool.
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It almost feels like you can't use the word Victim or Victim complex without being called out on Hillsborough. I appreciate it's sensitive and entirely subjective so on that note, a good debate and I will take my exit stage left.
 
Gilly said:
I've used 'always the victim' and not meant it about Hillsborough or Heysel.
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I can't say that I have ever heard it used in relation to either of those. I have heard plenty of people say it about Liverpools general attitude and actions over the past few years though.

I always thought it was due to the incessant complaining about getting a rough deal and being unlucky but for the most part its because of the Suarez thing. It dragged on for ages with Liverpool endeavouring to dig themselves a bigger hole each day with their actions.

There is such a thing as taking it on the chin.
 
I seem to remember LOADS of people basically saying Liverpool acting like the victim around the start of last season, there was no Hillsborough stuff at that time, just Liverpool acting like every, in this case, dive by Suarez and not getting a decision meant they were having point after point stolen off them.

No one complained more than Liverpool fans about the "bad" decisions and what was worse is, most weren't bad decisions, while Liverpool got away with loads. Liverpool fans acted as if every dive should have been a red or a penalty, and Dalglish would not shut up about every game being robbed off them.

This continued throughout the year, it has NOTHING to do with Hillsborough, the irony of ironys being Liverpool fans now insisting a "always the victim" jab is automatically a HIllsborough jab.... this is once again Liverpool fans acting the victim. Every time anything is said about Liverpool, every single time, some Liverpool fan(if not loads) try to find a reason we're victimising you.

The fact that Suarez is probably the most devious **** in the league doesn't matter, I have a personal vendetta against Liverpool if I mention it. The footage of Gerrard instigating an attack on someone in a club, a man surrounded by what 7-8 men, SITTING on a stool, was the aggressor, and me suggesting Gerrard is a ****, again its a complete vendetta against Liverpool, because in fact Gerrard was the victim.

It will be ignored that I was full of praise for Bellamy, Gerrard on the pitch when he isn't cheating, Garcia, Morientes, etc, etc, I just hate Liverpool.

THat is the attitude, I have a go at players I don't like, but Liverpool fans have to believe there is something more there, its in almost every post and its pathetic now.

I have a go at plenty of Utd players, and highly praise others(I'm fairly sure I praise Scholes more than most/all Utd fans on these forums). Most Utd fans don't take me calling Rooney average as an attack on Utd as Liverpool would in the same situation.

I've never seen another group of fans so intent on adding meaning that simply wasn't there, to everything ever said about a Liverpool fan/player/whatever.

Essentially, Liverpool fans more than most act as if there is some conspiracy going on with half of what gets said about them.... its that attitude that makes people say "always the victim", nothing more or less.

I seem to remember people bringing up always the victim, after Mr Fachts gave his speech, the club radiates this attitude that everyone is out to get them, its got smeg all to do with Hillsborough and only to do with how they react to everything.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I seem to remember LOADS of people basically saying Liverpool acting like the victim around the start of last season.
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No you don't, we all complained we were constantly unlucky missing these chances and hitting the post until we realised it was actually we are dog **** at finishing, nothing to do with referee decisions, but whatever floats your boat
 
I think the whole victim thing is more a case of Liverpool fans taking offence at something - out of context - rather than the person making the comments referencing Hillsborough. That's certainly the impression I get in most cases.

I have absolutely no doubt that the word victim has been used as an insult, referencing Hillsborough in some - perhaps many - cases, but that doesn't mean the word victim can only reference Hillsborough.

There's no question that Liverpool fans do tend to play the 'hard done by' card more than any other fans I've come across, but that isn't to say they all do, we shouldn't generalise.

I do think that once the word victim gets mentioned in any context regarding Liverpool, things get out of hand (as we see on a near weekly basis on here). You can't keep dragging up the past to berate people forever, I wonder when it will end.
 
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