I thought Liverpool exposed the static movement of Carrick and Giggs.
Manchester United need more in midfield. Giggs should be played more forward. Scholes is still brilliant, but lacks the stamina to play a full game.
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [21st - 24th September 2012]
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
- Status
I thought Liverpool exposed the static movement of Carrick and Giggs.
Manchester United need more in midfield. Giggs should be played more forward. Scholes is still brilliant, but lacks the stamina to play a full game.
Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Dec 2004
- Posts
- 17,078
- Location
- Shepley
Giggs is finished to be brutally honest.
It's also bizarre that Cleverley gets started for England but can't get a game for United. Stick Carrick in there to protect the defence and then bring some energy with Cleverley/Anderson/Kagawa.
I thinik if Anderson and Cleverly could get a run of games together it could work well.
Giggs is only picked for that single, brilliant pass he will make at some point in the game
Scholes is fantastic, his game just relies on passing and making space for himself, Giggs hasn't got that, the vision or ability to do that. You can tell he's a winger who's tried to change.
Giggs is only picked for that single, brilliant pass he will make at some point in the game
Scholes is fantastic, his game just relies on passing and making space for himself, Giggs hasn't got that, the vision or ability to do that. You can tell he's a winger who's tried to change.
Whoa there cowboy. I didn't say that anyone was lying. I'm said that some pundits are being careful about how they are perceived by the masses (Red Nev), some are not (Lawrenson, Redknapp).
I'm not trying to make an argument, only stating my opinion. If you don't like it, do one
The replays are not conclusive at all. You are just stating your opinion same as everyone else. Stop trying to make out that your opinion is worth more than mine, or anyone else's for that matter.
You said Neville's comments were because he was trying to be seen as impartial. What do you mean by that if you're not saying that he was hiding his true opinion by claiming it was a pen? Or was it a totally pointless comment?
I have no problem with people having a different opinion. I do find it hard to believe that anybody that saw Sky's post match analysis can honestly say that they still think Evans made contact with the ball though. The replays were conclusive enough for Stevie Wonder.
I'll give you static movement was a problem but certainly not from Carrick (the holding midfielder) and not really even from Giggs either. Unfortunately Giggs' legs have gone, he doesn't have it in him to play on the wing or in central midfield anymore and has never been great in the hole either (where he was moved to in the second half) but all of that can be somewhat forgiven given his age (it's not his fault Fergie's picking him) what's pretty unforgivable though is his poor usage of the ball when in possession and that's something that could also be pinned on Nani, Valencia, Kagawa and RVP that's the reason why Liverpool appeared to dominate us at the weekend it's because everytime the ball went beyond Carrick and the back 4 someone further forward wasted possession or was easily dispossessed.
My opinion hasn't changed since the weekend, Cleverley should have started, obviously this is easy for me to say from my sofa but Fergie imo puts too much trust in experience these days and plays players based on the occasion rather than the opponent, Scholes played against Wigan and Galatasaray so was always going to miss out on Sunday but Fergie wanted one of the old guard in midfield and that's where Giggs fitted in, I'd like to think Cleverley would have used the ball a lot better and would have acted as a much better link between Carrick/The back 4 and the attacking front 4, obviously though the problem with those front 4 failing to keep possession would have still been there but it would have been a slight improvement nonetheless.
EDIT:
Or basically this
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 58,056
- Location
- Surrey
This is the best replay I can find
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/luis-suarez-penalty-shout-liverpool-v-manchester-united/
Even in slow motion it's hard to tell, the ball motion makes it look like Evans just gets his toe to it though.
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/luis-suarez-penalty-shout-liverpool-v-manchester-united/
Even in slow motion it's hard to tell, the ball motion makes it look like Evans just gets his toe to it though.
Until someone else says they saw said footage I'm going to assume you're lying Baz
I saw it, it was also the second replay they showed of the incident live.
Until someone else says they saw said footage I'm going to assume you're lying Baz
If Baz is talking about the post match clip, then yeah he's right, they blew up the image and showed it in slow mo.
Evans basically clips Suarez's foot, doesn't get the ball, but it all happened at such speed it was very difficult to tell live.
Until someone else says they saw said footage I'm going to assume you're lying Baz
If you can't trust me, who can you trust?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
I'm not really sure what the discussion about, even if he didn't get the ball its still not a bad decision. Hindsight doesn't make a decision good or bad based on what is right or wrong.
With multiple replays its not clear, the ref as far as I know doesn't have robotic eyes that can both zoom in and show him the angle from the other side. It looks every single bit a dive and a good tackle from the ref's point of view and maybe if Suarez hadn't made such a meal of EVERY SINGLE thing that has happened to him since he landed in the UK the... nope, still didn't look a penalty to the ref. Those things happen, they happen every single game and don't make or brake games.
He's reputation is shot and its not because he was a bit divey in his first month, he is still diving every game and making a massive meal of every decision.
I think it was on footie 365 in the conclusions about the game they mention a decision, probably the RVP foul, in which Suarez ran half the length of the pitch, from the penalty box to half way line to scream his teeth off at the ref, then when LIverpool took the freekick Suarez was on his way to the box rather than IN the box.
Even for something that had nothing to do with him he felt the need to go and mouth off at the ref, what do you think the ref's opinion of Suarez is after almost every decision getting an earful from Suarez, lets just say that if ref's don't like giving decisions in the way of certain players.... Suarez is top of that list and he has no one to blame but himself.
The Valencia penalty was looked more of a penalty because Johnson didn't get the ball, not sure if the ref could see the clip on the ankle or not. From his angle Valencia gets touched and goes down and Johnson obviously didn't get the ball, for the Suarez one it looks like Evan's does get the ball, Evans didn't come flying in, Johnson did.
From the ref's angle both decisions that were given, would still be given the same way by the majority of people. While Evan's did a pretty bad tackle it was still less bad than Shelvey's and for the life of me I can't remember when two players were sent off for a horrendous tackle when only one of them is caught.
It happens all the time though that two guys go in for say a high ball both feet the same height, one gets the ball, other gets the player and the player who misses the ball gets a yellow. Its standard even if both are in the wrong the player who was worse gets the punishment.
With multiple replays its not clear, the ref as far as I know doesn't have robotic eyes that can both zoom in and show him the angle from the other side. It looks every single bit a dive and a good tackle from the ref's point of view and maybe if Suarez hadn't made such a meal of EVERY SINGLE thing that has happened to him since he landed in the UK the... nope, still didn't look a penalty to the ref. Those things happen, they happen every single game and don't make or brake games.
He's reputation is shot and its not because he was a bit divey in his first month, he is still diving every game and making a massive meal of every decision.
I think it was on footie 365 in the conclusions about the game they mention a decision, probably the RVP foul, in which Suarez ran half the length of the pitch, from the penalty box to half way line to scream his teeth off at the ref, then when LIverpool took the freekick Suarez was on his way to the box rather than IN the box.
Even for something that had nothing to do with him he felt the need to go and mouth off at the ref, what do you think the ref's opinion of Suarez is after almost every decision getting an earful from Suarez, lets just say that if ref's don't like giving decisions in the way of certain players.... Suarez is top of that list and he has no one to blame but himself.
The Valencia penalty was looked more of a penalty because Johnson didn't get the ball, not sure if the ref could see the clip on the ankle or not. From his angle Valencia gets touched and goes down and Johnson obviously didn't get the ball, for the Suarez one it looks like Evan's does get the ball, Evans didn't come flying in, Johnson did.
From the ref's angle both decisions that were given, would still be given the same way by the majority of people. While Evan's did a pretty bad tackle it was still less bad than Shelvey's and for the life of me I can't remember when two players were sent off for a horrendous tackle when only one of them is caught.
It happens all the time though that two guys go in for say a high ball both feet the same height, one gets the ball, other gets the player and the player who misses the ball gets a yellow. Its standard even if both are in the wrong the player who was worse gets the punishment.
there is no way the ref could've given that as a pen, way too close to give a fair shout from the position he was in. i can see why liverpool fans are saying it should be but it would've been extremely harsh as evans is clearly going for the ball like suarez. 6 of one half a dozen of the other etc.
So as long as you're attempting to get the ball, a foul can't be given against you?
I'm not going to blame the ref for not giving us the pen because in real time it's very hard to call however had he given it, you can't say it would have been harsh because Evans was going for the ball. 90% of all fouls occur when a player is genuinely trying to win the ball - it doesn't make them less of a foul though.
I'm not going to blame the ref for not giving us the pen because in real time it's very hard to call however had he given it, you can't say it would have been harsh because Evans was going for the ball. 90% of all fouls occur when a player is genuinely trying to win the ball - it doesn't make them less of a foul though.
but is often different when it's in the area and the ref can't be 100% sure on the decision but mistakes still happen. look at all the incidents that go on in the area, shirt pulling, hand balls etc that aren't given? referee's make mistakes but on this occassion i think the correct decision has been made as there was no way he could be 100% certain. couple this with suarez' reputation and well, there you go.
It's really difficult to discuss anything with you when you jump around all over the place with your points.
I said that I don't blame the ref for not giving the decision as in real time it's a very hard call to make, even though the correct decision would have been a penalty. I was questioning your comment that it would have been harsh had it been given because Evans was going for the ball. Going for the ball doesn't make a trip any less of a foul - the majority of fouls happen when a player is going for the ball.
I said that I don't blame the ref for not giving the decision as in real time it's a very hard call to make, even though the correct decision would have been a penalty. I was questioning your comment that it would have been harsh had it been given because Evans was going for the ball. Going for the ball doesn't make a trip any less of a foul - the majority of fouls happen when a player is going for the ball.
and it's hard to discuss any point with you when you're adamant the correct decision should've been a penalty even though you don't blame the ref's decision?
there is milliseconds between suarez getting a touch on the ball, it wasn't late, evans eyes are pinned on the ball. suarez hasn't shimmied past him or taken the ball past him. like i said.. six of one....
even if the ref had been positioned elsewhere, still too close to call. was there a 4th official? not that a 4th official made any difference to spurs when they scored 2 legit goals on thursday..... just saying.
there is milliseconds between suarez getting a touch on the ball, it wasn't late, evans eyes are pinned on the ball. suarez hasn't shimmied past him or taken the ball past him. like i said.. six of one....
even if the ref had been positioned elsewhere, still too close to call. was there a 4th official? not that a 4th official made any difference to spurs when they scored 2 legit goals on thursday..... just saying.
What is difficult to understand? Evans fouls Suarez therefore the correct outcome should have been a penalty. I can understand why the ref didn't give it and don't blame him for not giving it because in real time and from where he's looking, it's a close call. That doesn't change the fact that it was a foul though.
And you've still not cleared up why you think that Evans (or any player in any other incident) going for the ball changes anything.
we're talking about the evans incident here.
as i said, evans eyes are pinned on the ball, he hasn't lost the player and made a clumsy, last gasp challenge. once again. there are milliseconds in it.
- Status