Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread spoilers [22 - 26th December 2012]

Chong Warrior · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:03

A player needs to be judged to have been involved in play and become 'live'

The ball did not even reach Cisse as Evans put the ball in the net first. Had Evans left the ball and Cisse had scored then it would have been disallowed and a free-kick awarded for off-side.

J4K3 M · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:03

Nate75 said:
I can accept being wrong.

You learn more from being wrong than being right!

Anyways.

What have I got wrong here? The ball was played in with Cisse in an offside position. Why is that not offside?

Because he wasnt in the line with the keeper blocking his view,
and because he didnt touch the ball or make an attempt to he isnt classed as being "active".
Had he touched the ball or made an attempt to get to it then it would be classed as offside, if you watch closely, Evans pushes Cisse into that position too, he just stands behind him, doing nothing

Nate75 · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:09

J4K3 M said:
Because he wasnt in the line with the keeper blocking his view,
and because he didnt touch the ball or make an attempt to he isnt classed as being "active".
Had he touched the ball or made an attempt to get to it then it would be classed as offside, if you watch closely, Evans pushes Cisse into that position too, he just stands behind him, doing nothing

OK thanks for considering the point.

However Cisse was in an offside position when the ball was kicked.

And I do feel that if players are in an offside position when a ball is crossed into the area (or anywhere else in an offside position) then it should be given as offside tbh.

"Had he touched the ball or made an attempt to get to it then it would be classed as offside"

I'm sorry but I disagree. Offside is offside!!

stokecity_m · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:12

Purdy · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:14

Did he say that?

Maybe a way to motivate players but hes wrong, we might have created some more clear cut chances but never looked like scoring and Stoke took their chances well

Tummy · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:16

I felt Cisse had an impact on Evans and was involved in the active play, so the goal should have been ruled offside because Cisse was involved in the play. Just my opinion.

I've been talking about it a bit this evening and disagree'd with Alan Shearers 'analysis' on Match of the Day too.

Pigeon_Killer · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:19

stokecity_m said:

Rodgers said:
"It was a great start for us, getting our first penalty. Coming away from home and starting like that was great, but we gave away poor goals. All three of them were actually quite straightforward to defend,” Rodgers told Sky Sports.

"The first one, Martin Skrtel slipped and was unfortunate but there were two goals where we have to do much better with and that was the disappointment really.

"We got into some good areas but when you come to places like here, you've got to defend better or else you get nothing and we deserved nothing because of that.

"Everyone knows the strengths of Stoke and they do it very well, but when you've prepared to deal with it's even more disappointing. It was a corner, a throw-in and a direct ball.

"Stoke don't quite get the credit they deserve. Tony Pulis has done a brilliant job here to keep them progressing. They do it very well. But from our perspective, it was poor defending."

Nate75 · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:20

Tummy said:
I felt Cisse had an impact on Evans and was involved in the active play, so the goal should have been ruled offside because Cisse was involved in the play. Just my opinion.

I've been talking about it a bit this evening and disagree'd with Alan Shearers 'analysis' on Match of the Day too.

for me it's black and white (no pun intended..)

Cisse was offside when the ball was kicked. In the box also (not that it should matter tbh).

If thats OK and within the rules why not stick 5 players in the box whilst being offside (not that is a part of the rules^^^) and see how they crack on.

- it's OK they didn't touch the ball or look at the keeper etc

J4K3 M · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:27

Nate75 said:
OK thanks for considering the point.

However Cisse was in an offside position when the ball was kicked.

And I do feel that if players are in an offside position when a ball is crossed into the area (or anywhere else in an offside position) then it should be given as offside tbh.

"Had he touched the ball or made an attempt to get to it then it would be classed as offside"

I'm sorry but I disagree. Offside is offside!!

I understand where your coming from, if a players in an offside position at any time the ball is played towards them then they should be classed as offside, but thats not the rule any more, and thats where people get confused with the decisions like you have here, the new rules state he wasnt interfering with play. So...... that being said, thats why the goal stood, end of. Not as if we gained any advantage from it, we lost and didnt get a point so in the end, all worked out well for Man U in the end

Nate75 · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:31

J4K3 M said:
I understand where your coming from, if a players in an offside position at any time the ball is played towards them then they should be classed as offside, but thats not the rule any more, and thats where people get confused with the decisions like you have here, the new rules state he wasnt interfering with play. So...... that being said, thats why the goal stood, end of. Not as if we gained any advantage from it, we lost and didnt get a point so in the end, all worked out well for Man U in the end

no wonder the officials are confused!

OK good point and taken on board.

Pigeon_Killer · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:34

Of all the rule changes over the last 10 or 20 have any really improved the game? The pass back rule probably did to an extent but not much else.

Nate75 · 27 Dec 2012 at 01:47

Pigeon_Killer said:
Of all the rule changes over the last 10 or 20 have any really improved the game? The pass back rule probably did to an extent but not much else.

name one other rule change.

HangTime · 27 Dec 2012 at 02:08

Don't know if it counts as a 'rule change' but the decision by FIFA to make a tackle from behind a red card prior to USA'94 was arguably an improvement in terms of at least on the face of it reducing the number of dangerous tackles going in, even if it never got properly enforced (most of the media interpreted it differently, frequently claiming that it was a yellow card offence, and a lot of refs enforced it that way too, which was perhaps for the best).

sunnysingh · 27 Dec 2012 at 02:47

Great away win at Barnsley, also as they battered us 5 nil at home we had to get a positive result. Another away game at Bolton this weekend so hopefully we can pick up 3 points. So strange as last season we were awful away from home, but this year its the other way round. Still a lot of fans not liking Lee Clark, but until the clubs finances are sorted his not going anywhere. I've always been willing to give any new manager the time so I hope he can turn our fortunes around !!!

Malevolence · 27 Dec 2012 at 05:31

OK, so my post saying that Liverpool played **** last night and deserved to lose the game is deleted and I'm told to "Behave", yet crap like this...

MrJohnSherry said:
I thought everyone knew Stoke fans were utter utter *****? ****e city, ****e football, ****houses.

...is allowed to stay? Why is that?

Bigpig · 27 Dec 2012 at 07:16

Chong Warrior said:
You don't understand the off-side rule, or the newer version of it, simples.

Good call by the ref.

What I found great was. He went over to the linesman. Took his time and made the right choice

Newbie007 · 27 Dec 2012 at 07:54

Purdy said:
So possession is nothing unless attacking possession then its great possession if you cant have a good attack so just hold on to it to stop the opposition scoring, wat

He knows what he is talking about re possession Purdy, Arsenal fans have been watching possession based football without doing anything with it for nearly a decade now

placeholder · 27 Dec 2012 at 08:25

J4K3 M said:
I understand where your coming from, if a players in an offside position at any time the ball is played towards them then they should be classed as offside, but thats not the rule any more, and thats where people get confused with the decisions like you have here, the new rules state he wasnt interfering with play. So...... that being said, thats why the goal stood, end of. Not as if we gained any advantage from it, we lost and didnt get a point so in the end, all worked out well for Man U in the end

The guy must be considered active if he caused the defender to score an own goal surely.

One More Solo · 27 Dec 2012 at 09:51

The law states a player is active only when they touch the ball or if they are "preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball." Clearly Cisse didn't touch the ball nor did he prevent Evans from playing the ball directly as Evans had hold of him rather than the opposite.

There is no debate as the decision was correct, but the law is utterly bat**** insane.

Chong Warrior · 27 Dec 2012 at 11:14

One More Solo said:
The law states a player is active only when they touch the ball or if they are "preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball." Clearly Cisse didn't touch the ball nor did he prevent Evans from playing the ball directly as Evans had hold of him rather than the opposite.

There is no debate as the decision was correct, but the law is utterly bat**** insane.

I agree it's insane and impossible to implement properly. The Evans OG is actually an excellent example.

I'm surprised no Man Utd fans have actually brought this up because although earlier I said good call by the ref, there's still reason to feel hard done by (though if Utd had lost I'm sure more would have bee made of it)

Evans put the ball into his own net because of pressure from Cisse and he was trying to clear the ball to stop Cisse scoring. So how was Cisse "inactive"? He didn't touch the ball but his presence almost certainly forced Evans into the error?

Was Evans supposed to know Cisse was offside and let the ball run past him? Even if he did he would still run the risk of Cisse missing the ball and another Newcastle player who was onside scoring.... it's madness.

Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [22 - 26th December 2012]

Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread spoilers [22 - 26th December 2012]