I set them to ignore it's a feature of the friends list in your profile, life gets good again when they're closed out, I wish we could deport all the racists and paedo's to Antarctica or the sea somewhere.
Halal, is it meat you're looking for?
- Thread starter Zbornak
- Start date
I set them to ignore it's a feature of the friends list in your profile, life gets good again when they're closed out, I wish we could deport all the racists and paedo's to Antarctica or the sea somewhere.
Caporegime
Okay so that study was conducted in a single week in 2011, its not a continuous stat that is tracked weekly, or yearly to state that only 10% of halal foods is not pre stunned currently. Whereas we know from the HMC website I posted, they actively disallow stunning right now as policy. Earlier you said that all the major orgs say it should be stunned but that's not what the reality turned out to be. I also pointed out that the org that does stun states that it uses miniscule amounts of amps, is this simply lip service to the law, i.e they go through the motions but don't actually fully stun the animal? Good enough to say 'yes we stunned it' but not actually satisfactorily stunning the animal so that it reduces the pain as recommended? That comes down to the spirit of the law and the letter of the law, but from an ethical perspective leaves little to the imagination.
And of course Muslims would be happy with the UK law on meat, its great for them because they are exempt from it.
You misunderstand, the conditioning part is that muslims already believe that halal is okay whether stunned or not. They think its the right thing to do because they are conditioned to believe so by way of religious fervour - not because scientifically that is the best way to kill animals with the least pain etc. I've been conditioned to be pragmatic, to look at what the independent non religious advocates of animal welfare say not what a book written hundreds of years ago tells us.
It is what the reality turned out to be, as I keep repeating a halal agency is not a Muslim council or other body, as said that is not the only report.
Slaughter houses need an exception not to stun, you are plainly wrong and ignore all studdied. Google there are lottery dozens of studies by many different organisations. All come out with a similar number.
You thinking one halal regulations, is a big Islamic body like the British council or others is laughable.
You were wrong, still are wrong and can't even use the right facts to back you up. More miss representation and ignoring everyone else.
What a surprise.
Oh and more uneducated ness from you. Amps kill, which is why they use small amperage. This does not mean that the animal isn't unconcisuse as that's more to do with hz and voltage. Even mainstream uses small amperage.
Well you aren't looking at what independent non religious bodies are saying, so don't say you do. as you are ignoring dozens of reports from such bodies.
Slaughter houses need an exception not to stun, you are plainly wrong and ignore all studdied. Google there are lottery dozens of studies by many different organisations. All come out with a similar number.
You thinking one halal regulations, is a big Islamic body like the British council or others is laughable.
You were wrong, still are wrong and can't even use the right facts to back you up. More miss representation and ignoring everyone else.
What a surprise.
Oh and more uneducated ness from you. Amps kill, which is why they use small amperage. This does not mean that the animal isn't unconcisuse as that's more to do with hz and voltage. Even mainstream uses small amperage.
Well you aren't looking at what independent non religious bodies are saying, so don't say you do. as you are ignoring dozens of reports from such bodies.
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Soldato
I didn't say it was A FACT...I said it was "the fact" as in, that's the reason people are uppity about it. If you can't distinguish English composition then don't bother replying.
"disgusting as it is disturbing" haha...how is it? meat won't kill you when you eat it and unless you're told otherwise you probably wouldn't know you ate real meat instead of the fake stuff in a Quorn sausage. YOUR basis of what's disgusting and disturbing is in what YOU believe in. Same with people and what they believe is humane against what isn't humane when it comes to animals being slaughtered.
If you guys care about Animal welfare I suggest you do your research about slaughter houses and how animals are treated before & when they slaughtered.
Then go read the Qur'an for yourself not the tabloids, not some random website I mean the Qur'an the real source where the words have not been twisted, You will see that Islamic scriptures are very diligent in insisting upon animal welfare.
Edit A few requirements
No stress or discomfort to any animal before slaughter
Animal must be healthy and free from any disease or injury
The animal skin or fur and bird feathers to be clean prior to slaughter
Any flowing blood of the carcass should be completely drained
I believe all meat should be labelled method of slaughter: captive bolt shooting, gassing, electrocution, drowning, trapping, clubbing or any of the other approved methods. Also how the animal was farmed e.g. Free range, battery hens, factory farming.
Just to make it clear "Stunning" does not only mean electric stunning it also means: Penetrating captive bolt, Gas stunning/killing & Electrical, where some systems electrocute the animal to death.
Then go read the Qur'an for yourself not the tabloids, not some random website I mean the Qur'an the real source where the words have not been twisted, You will see that Islamic scriptures are very diligent in insisting upon animal welfare.
Edit A few requirements
No stress or discomfort to any animal before slaughter
Animal must be healthy and free from any disease or injury
The animal skin or fur and bird feathers to be clean prior to slaughter
Any flowing blood of the carcass should be completely drained
I believe all meat should be labelled method of slaughter: captive bolt shooting, gassing, electrocution, drowning, trapping, clubbing or any of the other approved methods. Also how the animal was farmed e.g. Free range, battery hens, factory farming.
Just to make it clear "Stunning" does not only mean electric stunning it also means: Penetrating captive bolt, Gas stunning/killing & Electrical, where some systems electrocute the animal to death.
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Caporegime
pre-cooked?
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Jun 2010
- Posts
- 3,251
STRAWMAN ALERT. I never claimed it did. I love a good strawman, as I hate the hypocrites who don't understand them.
Quorn is not 'fake meat', it as alternative protein source. A healthy diet requires a good supply of carbohydrates, fats and protein, as well as the trace minerals and vitamins. I believe in this day and age of science, education and mass production we are able to make choices about what we consume. Given the choice between a field of corn, sowing the seed and harvesting the crop, and a field of corn fed chickens born to die for my pleasure, I choose the lesser of the two evils. Where science can safely fill in the gaps, i choose that to.
A poorly written and difficult sentence to deconstruct, however, I believe you are saying 'What you find disturbing i may not find disturbing. What you find humane I may not find humane', which in turn is simply an 'Everybody is entitled to their opinion' argument.
Thats all well and good, but its a very naive position when you consider moral absolutes.
If your neighbour believes he is entitled to your garden, does he have the right to fence it off? Of course not. But what if the dispute is over a patch of no mans land. You say its yours, he says its his. Now things get much harder. Lets have a look at the paper work and see who legally owns the land. Lets bring in an unbiased adjudicated to look at the evidence and pass judgement over the dispute.
Your opinion is not your own garden, it is in conflict with somebody else. At that point the grievance goes to adjudication. In a perfect world, the outcome would be morally absolute. If you lose, and stick to your opinion, it is no longer an opinion based on logic and reason; it has become a grudge. And therein we find the source of so much of the strife humanity inflicts upon itself. Stubborn people holding stubborn grudges refusing to listen to logic and reason.
In this parable, mine is the first case scenario. You have your meat, I have my vegetables, everybody is happy. You are in the second scenario, disputing over a piece of no mans land, refusing or unable to listen to logic and reason.
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Man of Honour
Do you believe I am Muslim? If so, you couldn't be more wrong. If not, what does this conditioning have to do with me?
Soldato
It's quite simple, it should be labelled or at least obvious that its Halal, so people can make an informed decision for whatever reason.
For eg: Roosters use a green circle as their logo, to me that was enough to know it was halal, because I know Islam has a thing about green for some reason.
I've been eating at GBK for a few months, I did some looking on their website today after all this came up turns out their chicken is halal.
Not that I actually eat the chicken anyway but its the princible, Five Guys is nicer anyway.
For eg: Roosters use a green circle as their logo, to me that was enough to know it was halal, because I know Islam has a thing about green for some reason.
I've been eating at GBK for a few months, I did some looking on their website today after all this came up turns out their chicken is halal.
Not that I actually eat the chicken anyway but its the princible, Five Guys is nicer anyway.
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Soldato
Stunned or not it's not how I want my meat killed, but them again I use a quality traditional country butcher.
I wonder how long the same old fascists are going to realise that calling anyone with a different opinion that you're not comfortable with a bigot is no longer working?
Probably never.
I don't have a Five Guys near me so I'll have to settle with Muslamic burgers as a matter of convenience.
- Joined
- 4 Jan 2013
- Posts
- 3,783
Seems a bit of an irrelevant insult to accuse those against it of wanting to "send them back".
It can be construed differently, and more in the context of a relatively new influence within the UK having a large impact very quickly.
Does the halal method really matter? I'd argue yes, because we are seeing the influence of a religion not known for being benign, upon the mass populace.
The question is: will any other aspects of society be modified, as the demographics inexorably change?
And it IS a valid question, as research into historical areas where Islam makes itself known, typically do not have a very good track record...
It can be construed differently, and more in the context of a relatively new influence within the UK having a large impact very quickly.
Does the halal method really matter? I'd argue yes, because we are seeing the influence of a religion not known for being benign, upon the mass populace.
The question is: will any other aspects of society be modified, as the demographics inexorably change?
And it IS a valid question, as research into historical areas where Islam makes itself known, typically do not have a very good track record...
You could give a few examples of that.
I think some people also forget that if the Islamic way of slaughtering is inhumane, then the most humane thing is not to slaughter the animal at all. Right now it's just about the method, but ultimately the vegetarian's have the moral high ground.
Soldato
Let them eat cake.
Caporegime
So...
A halal food certifier has decided to remove certification from stunned poultry if new EU regulations on stunning voltages are imposed.
In a letter sent to poultry operators on 12 November 2013, and seen by Meatinfo.co.uk, the Halal Food Authority (HFA) claimed enforcement of EC 1099/2009 on 1 January 2014 – which includes requirements for higher stunning voltages – could result in the death of birds prior to slaughter, something that is not permissible under halal rules.
“Having considered the impact of [the] eventual enforcement of the EU Regulation ‘Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing’ EC 1099/2009 on slaughtering of poultry for halal purposes, [the] HFA has now concluded stunning of poultry as incompatible with HFA halal standards and hereby abandon its permissibility for halal slaughtering in the EU,” stated the letter.
According to industry sources, stunning voltages will have to increase by 50% under the new EU Regulation and could result in the death of approximately 35% of birds.
http://www.meatinfo.co.uk/news/full...if_EU_92s_new_stunning_rule_is_enforced_.html
A halal food certifier has decided to remove certification from stunned poultry if new EU regulations on stunning voltages are imposed.
In a letter sent to poultry operators on 12 November 2013, and seen by Meatinfo.co.uk, the Halal Food Authority (HFA) claimed enforcement of EC 1099/2009 on 1 January 2014 – which includes requirements for higher stunning voltages – could result in the death of birds prior to slaughter, something that is not permissible under halal rules.
“Having considered the impact of [the] eventual enforcement of the EU Regulation ‘Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing’ EC 1099/2009 on slaughtering of poultry for halal purposes, [the] HFA has now concluded stunning of poultry as incompatible with HFA halal standards and hereby abandon its permissibility for halal slaughtering in the EU,” stated the letter.
According to industry sources, stunning voltages will have to increase by 50% under the new EU Regulation and could result in the death of approximately 35% of birds.
http://www.meatinfo.co.uk/news/full...if_EU_92s_new_stunning_rule_is_enforced_.html
Soldato
So it will be illegal under EU law?
Caporegime
It technically is but the uk government are too lax to enforce it. They don't even want to label halal or kosher etc...
I guess the EU had to act when halal abattoirs were setting their phasers to tickle instead of stun. But now they are being asked to properly stun they know they can't comply so they have rejected stunning.
I guess the EU had to act when halal abattoirs were setting their phasers to tickle instead of stun. But now they are being asked to properly stun they know they can't comply so they have rejected stunning.
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