Hillsborough Disaster

Yozz76 said:
Wow, some people still appear to be 'clinging' on to what they want to believe. Some of you need to understand that the Liverpool fans that day have now been cleared of any blame. However, some of you appear to not want to believe this. It is astonishing what prejudice can do to the mind.
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No.

What is happening here is for whatever reason Liverpool fans have let themselves be dragged down to the Police's level and now can't get their head around the fact that not everyone wants to play an all or nothing blame game.

Not everyone subscribes to the 'Us or them'/'You're either with us or against us' mentality and we just want to know all the events of that day.

I can perfectly understand why Liverpool fans, who've had the entire blame put on them from day one by SYP and The Sun want to get revenge by claiming or proving that not only were they not to wholly to blame but it was all the Police's fault but the idea that there are only two versions of events, one where the fans are entirely to blame and another where the police are entirely to blame and you have to pick one or the other is asinine.

No one in this thread is trying to absolve SYP of responsibility and "blame" Liverpool fans for the disaster, we're simply questioning the cut & dryness of the latest report which seems to have taken this horrible event and given the complete opposite conclusion to the original inquiry.

I'm not interested in apportioning "blame", I'm just interested in finding out exactly what happened that day.
 
JohnnyG said:
Well to be fair, that just says that they weren't the cause of the disaster.
Has it been declared that other fans weren't part of the problem, for want of a better phrase?
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I don't believe so.

Are you talking about the other teams fans, or the other Liverpool fans in that area of the ground?
 
Liverpool fans, and of course they were part of the 'problem', you can't have a crush with no people.

But they played no role in causing it and simply behaving like any other day and went where they were guided, in which a guy directing his first match as chief officer or whatever allowed them to open the gate to stop the congestion outside.
 
strocky said:
If if was ONLY the SYP that where at fault and complicit in the coverup, why did a Tory MP Irvine Patnick, brief Kelvin MacKenzie about the "message" to be put out? :rolleyes:
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If you don't understand how that would work under the circumstances, me explaining it ti you won't make any difference.

But to try and help you along, one mp, is not "the government"

One MP lying is not "the government lying" especially when he is lying to the prime minister.
You've confused one man lying as an official government conspiracy.
 
Thatcher not think it might be important to trust more than one MPs word?

Or did she not give a **** about the working class
 
estebanrey said:
No.

What is happening here is for whatever reason Liverpool fans have let themselves be dragged down to the Police's level and now can't get their head around the fact that not everyone wants to play an all or nothing blame game.

Not everyone subscribes to the 'Us or them'/'You're either with us or against us' mentality and we just want to know all the events of that day.

I can perfectly understand why Liverpool fans, who've had the entire blame put on them from day one by SYP and The Sun want to get revenge by claiming or proving that not only were they not to wholly to blame but it was all the Police's fault but the idea that there are only two versions of events, one where the fans are entirely to blame and another where the police are entirely to blame and you have to pick one or the other is asinine.

No one in this thread is trying to absolve SYP of responsibility and "blame" Liverpool fans for the disaster, we're simply questioning the cut & dryness of the latest report which seems to have taken this horrible event and given the complete opposite conclusion to the original inquiry.

I'm not interested in apportioning "blame", I'm just interested in finding out exactly what happened that day.
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I think you are attacking this from the wrong angle.

The only blame that can be apportioned to the Liverpool fans is that they were behaving like football fans of the times, and the police failed to manage them.
 
Yozz76 said:
Wow, some people still appear to be 'clinging' on to what they want to believe. Some of you need to understand that the Liverpool fans that day have now been cleared of any blame. However, some of you appear to not want to believe this. It is astonishing what prejudice can do to the mind.
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Could not have put it any better!

I don't normally get involved in any discussions about religion/politics/football for obvious reasons, but some of the comments put forward in this thread I find disgusting and disrespectful towards the 96 who died! I was there in the Leppings lane end in "89" and the year before and I can tell you there was a vast difference in the way they were policed. This thread should be closed as it's clear some folk just don't want to blieve the real "TRUTH"! :mad:
 
grimm said:
I'v read everything I possibly could over the years...

The difference is that I'm not biased.
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When you say you've read everything possible, do you mean the details of the inquests and this independent panel or the S*n newspaper? I ask because all the experts have disagreed with the bs you're coming out with.
 
Purdy said:
Thatcher not think it might be important to trust more than one MPs word?

Or did she not give a **** about the working class
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The report is either right or it's wrong, it says the government were not aware of the truth at the time.

If you cant believe that, you can't then argue against people not believing that the Liverpool fans were blameless.

So which is it?

Or is it only scousers allowed to cherry pick what they believe or what they don't?
 
atpbx said:
I think you are attacking this from the wrong angle.

The only blame that can be apportioned to the Liverpool fans is that they were behaving like football fans of the times, and the police failed to manage them.
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I think it's more accurate to say human beings, but some posters have painted themselves into ridiculous arguments because of well-intentioned defence of LFC (which, as mentioned, wasn't always 'in vogue').
 
Robbo said:
I don't believe so.

Are you talking about the other teams fans, or the other Liverpool fans in that area of the ground?
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Just talking about fans at the game, albeit at that end of the stadium.

Purdy said:
Liverpool fans, and of course they were part of the 'problem', you can't have a crush with no people.

But they played no role in causing it and simply behaving like any other day and went where they were guided, in which a guy directing his first match as chief officer or whatever allowed them to open the gate to stop the congestion outside.
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Liverpool fans, Forest fans, Everton fans at least and maybe more as far as I'm aware, so not just Liverpool fans if you don't know.


Has this new declaration cleared all fans from any blame or not?
 
JohnnyG said:
Just talking about fans at the game, albeit at that end of the stadium.

Liverpool fans, Forest fans, Everton fans at least and maybe more as far as I'm aware, so not just Liverpool fans if you don't know.

Has this new declaration cleared all fans from any blame or not?
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Well, people seem to be taking it that way...
 
Yozz76 said:
Wow, some people still appear to be 'clinging' on to what they want to believe. Some of you need to understand that the Liverpool fans that day have now been cleared of any blame. However, some of you appear to not want to believe this. It is astonishing what prejudice can do to the mind.
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That's what I've heard from many places now but can't find any real evidence for it, please link to it or quote it at least.
 
estebanrey said:
No.




I can perfectly understand why Liverpool fans, who've had the entire blame put on them from day one by SYP and The Sun want to get revenge by claiming or proving that not only were they not to wholly to blame but it was all the Police's fault but the idea that there are only two versions of events, one where the fans are entirely to blame and another where the police are entirely to blame and you have to pick one or the other is asinine.


.
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Think your missing the point. This isn't about what the Sun thinks.
Even the taylor report laid blame at the feet of the police.
 
atpbx said:
I think you are attacking this from the wrong angle.

The only blame that can be apportioned to the Liverpool fans is that they were behaving like football fans of the times, and the police failed to manage them.
Click to expand...

Mr.Pink said:
Think your missing the point. This isn't about what the Sun thinks.
Even the taylor report laid blame at the feet of the police.
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Did you two read my post? I said "I'm not interested in apportioning 'blame'".

You are proving my point, you can't accept that not everyone wants to play the name the scapegoat game.
 
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