I'v read as much as possible. That includes things that I'v searched for on the internet over the years. Usually read a bit more each time the subject comes up again in the media because I have memories from when it happened (I was a small child at the time).
Hillsborough Disaster
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I'v read as much as possible. That includes things that I'v searched for on the internet over the years. Usually read a bit more each time the subject comes up again in the media because I have memories from when it happened (I was a small child at the time).
You can read the findings of the panel just 2 posts before yours
**** off there's 389 pages
Just a C&P of the relevant part will do for anyone who's familiar with it
You earlier claimed that you wanted to understand more about the disaster then as I suggested (and I should have done so more politely), read the findings of the independent panel. For the first time in 23 years, all remaining (and I say remaining because some evidence in the police's possession miraculously vanished) evidence and documentation surrounding the disaster was handed over and a full report has been produced. Even the earlier reports, where the police and other authorities didn't hand over all the documents, cleared Liverpool fans.
Prior to yesterday a lot of people asked why the families were still fighting for the truth to come out and it's because some people still believe the lies that were spread. It's truly incredible that people still try to point the figure of blame at Liverpool fans now.
Have a read of this.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000120140001.pdf
An amended statement from one of the officers. It's pretty harrowing reading and also highlights how far the senior officers went to cover their own backs.
Sickening.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000120140001.pdf
An amended statement from one of the officers. It's pretty harrowing reading and also highlights how far the senior officers went to cover their own backs.
Sickening.
No, I'm saying you that you are not making you point very well because you are going about it the wrong way.
All I'm proving is that you are not bright enough to see it.
It has **** all to do with revenge, or the blame game or Liverpool fans being dragged down to the Police, media or certain MP's of that time's level. First and foremost it was to do with the TRUTH of what happened that day, something a lot of posters here can't quite seem to grasp.
Actually, the Taylor report (the original inquiry) found that the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control. What this last inquiry has done is totally absolve the fans of any wrong doing and uncovered one of teh biggest coverups by the police, media and government officials this country has ever seen.
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Threads of rival football team message boards have less crap, trolls, bile and all round general bs than this thread.
In fact the solidarity and support has been rather surprising and touching. I can see a few YNWA chants or justice for the 96 chants this Saturday at various grounds around the country.
In fact the solidarity and support has been rather surprising and touching. I can see a few YNWA chants or justice for the 96 chants this Saturday at various grounds around the country.
You are biased though. If I had any personal connections to the disaster I would be biased too. It's human nature.
Dunno why you think I am a Man Utd fan though.
**** off there's 389 pages
Just a C&P of the relevant part will do for anyone who's familiar with it
Unfortunately the document's a bit more complex than that. It doesn't straight out say x was to blame, y wasn't to blame - it looks over the whole incident and comments on each and every aspect. If you don't want to read the entire thing, just read pages 6-13; it's a summary of all things up until after the event (it then goes on to summarise the findings regarding medical evidence and the cover-up etc).
Soldato
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I don't think you now what my point was, and by your reply which seemed to state the exact opposite of it I guessed you missed it entirely.
Woah the guy who wrote that has a weird obsessive fear of catching AIDS, I guess it was the 80s though.
If you're not a Man Utd fan, I apologise. That's a horrible thing for me to accuse you of being.
And other than growing up as a Liverpool fan, I wouldn't really say I had a personal attachment to the disaster. I was barely 2 years old when it happened, nor do I know anybody that died that day.
Being a Liverpool fan I'm more likely to take a greater interest in the incident and I have read up on it though.
I remember watching it all unfold back in the 80's and it was just horrible to watch. Back then fans were treated like Animals because football back then was a different game than what it is now. Football is a consumers product nothing more nothing less. All nicey nicey for the Sky cameras to beam their product around the globe. Ticket prices up you say, no problem, we only wan't to cater for the families with the disposable income who have nothing in common with the local football club.
What hasn't changed though from today to that day back in the 80's was the Police have had and do have a duty of care for Public Safety and they got it tragically wrong on the day. SYP tried to cover their tracks and throw as much dirt to make it out to be the fault of the fans. Back then who would have believed otherwise
The Families of the 96 families do deserve to know how one day a Son, Daughter, Dad or Uncle went to the match but never came home. The Families of the 96 deserve Justice how such a cover up happened, why it happened and who let it happen. There should be accountability. People are confusing accountability with some twisted notion of retribution or constantly bringing it up and that's wrong.
I very much doubt I could bring myself to say YNWA or tie a Utd Scarf to the gates of Anfield. But as a father and a human being I have nothing but absolute respect and compassion for the families for wanting to have the truth about their children known and justice served against those people or public bodies who allowed this tragedy to happen.
What hasn't changed though from today to that day back in the 80's was the Police have had and do have a duty of care for Public Safety and they got it tragically wrong on the day. SYP tried to cover their tracks and throw as much dirt to make it out to be the fault of the fans. Back then who would have believed otherwise
The Families of the 96 families do deserve to know how one day a Son, Daughter, Dad or Uncle went to the match but never came home. The Families of the 96 deserve Justice how such a cover up happened, why it happened and who let it happen. There should be accountability. People are confusing accountability with some twisted notion of retribution or constantly bringing it up and that's wrong.
I very much doubt I could bring myself to say YNWA or tie a Utd Scarf to the gates of Anfield. But as a father and a human being I have nothing but absolute respect and compassion for the families for wanting to have the truth about their children known and justice served against those people or public bodies who allowed this tragedy to happen.
Do you think they will be punished? Does it sound like the wheels of justice are in motion, or are the authorities going to keep fairly quiet and hope it goes away now all has been revealed?
There seems to be more than enough new evidence for the verdict of the old inquest to be quashed and for a new inquest to be had. If and when that happens, then the relevant people from Sheffield Council, Sheffield Wednesday, The FA and the Police (from back then of course) are not going to sleep easy.
Hopefully that will all go ahead then, some of the behaviour from the authorities was nothing short of abhorrent. They should be held accountable.
I'm pretty much just echoing what Baz said, basically with the incredible new level of evidence that has been produced, the old verdict should be quashed and a new line of investigation initiated.
Everyone that was involved with the cover up has a lot to be worried about, half of this entire sarga was the truth, the other half justice. I think my opinion on this matter is well known, but anyone involved in the cover up should face criminal prosecution. End of discussion.
It's, nice to have the truth, so that this entire smear campaign by the Sun and Police force and others, including members of the government can be highlighted as nothing more then rubbish, and also tragic and heart breaking at the same time, there were so man failings by the people in charge, the people we have faith in to protect us and have our welfare as their priority. That so much more could have been done at the time, peoples lives could have been saved.
I was not expecting the report to be so damning and so in depth, it came as a real surprised to me, parts of the report that highlighted and reinforced what I'd been told and read about were true.
I hope anyone who ever thought that this was the sole result of the action of Liverpool fans have a long hard read of this and a look at themselves.
The links are in this thread and are out there, yet on this subject of all subjects you seemingly can't be bothered to look at them. Your other comments go beyond what I consider to be common decency regarding this subject, and so you're now the first ever person I've put on my ignore list in the 12 plus years that I've been here.
I am finding this all very difficult to understand. Everything in the first enquiry was a lie and everything in the new one is the god honest truth 100%.
No one has said that it was the fans fault in this thread however there are plenty of us who don't think that you can apportion 100% of the blame to the police. Whether or not what the fans did was normal behaviour at a match, it was their actions that directly lead to the deaths and the police's actions we're to blame for the outcome of those actions.
Even the official report just completely sidesteps the point at which the fans would be in control of the events that took place. Its the correct verdict and I doubt anyone is questioning that but some of us think that this is all a little too convenient to be the whole truth.
Had there been any blame apportioned to the fans there would have been outrage and it wouldn't have made any difference to the final conclusions so I imagine that they missed it entirely for the sake of being able to clear it all up once and for all.
No one has said that it was the fans fault in this thread however there are plenty of us who don't think that you can apportion 100% of the blame to the police. Whether or not what the fans did was normal behaviour at a match, it was their actions that directly lead to the deaths and the police's actions we're to blame for the outcome of those actions.
Even the official report just completely sidesteps the point at which the fans would be in control of the events that took place. Its the correct verdict and I doubt anyone is questioning that but some of us think that this is all a little too convenient to be the whole truth.
Had there been any blame apportioned to the fans there would have been outrage and it wouldn't have made any difference to the final conclusions so I imagine that they missed it entirely for the sake of being able to clear it all up once and for all.