It's incredible that despite there never being a single shred of evidence to support these sick stories and now conclusive proof that the police lied in an attempt to deflect the blame from themselves, some people still believe that there may be some truth to it.
Hillsborough Disaster
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It's incredible that despite there never being a single shred of evidence to support these sick stories and now conclusive proof that the police lied in an attempt to deflect the blame from themselves, some people still believe that there may be some truth to it.
In 2006 he had this to say regarding his original apology in 1989 :
"There was a surge of Liverpool fans who had been drinking and that is what caused the disaster. The only thing different we did was put it under the headline 'The Truth'. I went on [BBC Radio 4's] World at One the next day and apologised. I only did that because Rupert Murdoch told me to. I wasn't sorry then and I'm not sorry now because we told the truth."
One link to the report about this out of many : http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/mackenzies-hillsborough--the-sun-told-the-truth-426674.html
Be in no doubt, this two faced excuse of a human being is utterly devoid of any sincerity, sentiment or remorse.
And for those like Grimm who think that there may have been some "Scumbags" in the crowd stirring things up (because there always is), it would seem the opposite was likely nearer to the truth...
Here's an original ITN news clip from a few days after the disaster. It's extremely telling on a few fronts, namely the Police cover up from the top (the utter contemptible gall of that man), the locals in Sheffield saying that it was very well natured before the match and a surgeon who was on the pitch helping people, who saw absolutely nothing of what the police said had happened : http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1989/04/19/BSP190489004/
(Click "Play" bottom left)
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I don't really know why you have taken what I'v written to heart so much.
I have acknowledged that it was a tragic event and that I hope that the people responsible are held fully accountable. Now that this new information has come to light I really hope that it can happen.
What I disagree with is the notion that all the coppers on duty there were pure evil and that all the match goers there were all saints.
I am trying to maintain a balanced perspective. Why is that so difficult to grasp?
I have acknowledged that it was a tragic event and that I hope that the people responsible are held fully accountable. Now that this new information has come to light I really hope that it can happen.
What I disagree with is the notion that all the coppers on duty there were pure evil and that all the match goers there were all saints.
I am trying to maintain a balanced perspective. Why is that so difficult to grasp?
Couldnt agree with you more, Im glad the truth has come out but to tar everyone with the same brush is utterly ridiculous.
Errr. The coppers killed loads of people, then blamed it all on the people that died and those that survived.
You think it's balanced or pertinent to think some of the dead, or the survivors were "scumbags"?
WTF is going on in your head?
It appeared that you blundered into an extremely emotive subject, without having read a little about it. That is all.
The rank and file policemen had indeed nothing to do with the cover up - it was their statements that were doctored or destroyed by high ranking officers. You'll see this stated today and over the coming weeks many, many times and no one here, as far as I've seen, has said any different!? In fact, most of us know that this was likely the case...for many years now in fact!
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Please stop pasting a small part of a very large discussion out of context just to try to make me look bad.
But it is exactly what you posted as a single post in the thread, it isn't out of context, you just plainly posted that.
I posted a few times in that thread (it was a very long thread), and there was a lot of discussion around the point of what do the victims' families actually want, and would it be healthier for them to move on with their lives 20+ years later. At that point there was no precedent to suggest that there would be any positive outcome from all the "fighting for justice", and also about what would be defined as "justice" in this case.
Continually posting that one comment from me out of context is quite unfair, but whatever... I can see there is no sense to be had in this thread. I have actually read a lot about the disaster and indeed remember seeing it on the news and hearing about it a lot when I was very young, so I do feel a connection to it.
I will allow you to shout me down on this occasion because it's such an emotive subject. I'm out.
it's not really as cut and dry as that though, is it? that is infact quite an awful thing to say.
i'm not saying the police are blameless as they're not and neither are a small minority of fans.
this was a tragedy, no doubt and should've been clarified a lot sooner than this but still, to make such comments about the police is harsh. the police are humans and were obviously ill equipped and under trained for such an occassion but the proportion of blame cannot be placed purely on the police. there are many people who are accountable.
what really strikes me as worrying, is how pure planning, observation and common sense could've prevented this happening in the first place.
no. there isn't. but there intention wasn't to kill people. they essentially didn't know what they were doing and in one aspect, i kind of feel sorry for them. they're human beings at the end of the day and it must've been almost as bad for them as it was for the fans due to intense pressure and not knowing what to do about it.
the covering up is inexcusable but i'd say this is the tip of the ice berg when it comes to things that have been covered up. again, another thing that worries me, considering our policing methods are supposed to have set a world precedent.
Soldato
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Is there an article I can read the sums up everything in a nutshell,
The incident (I was young)
The facts
The cover up
Todays findings
Cheers if anyone posts anything in reply to this
The incident (I was young)
The facts
The cover up
Todays findings
Cheers if anyone posts anything in reply to this
Soldato
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.Yes one of the few times I agree with you I can happily believe there was no intention to kill or for serious harm.
There was however a complete lack of care given to those who needed it and an absolutely useless response and people need to stand up and take responsibility, those are the ones who have lied and I hope they are brought to justice.
Is there an article I can read the sums up everything in a nutshell,
The incident (I was young)
The facts
The cover up
Todays findings
Cheers if anyone posts anything in reply to this
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/hillsborough-documents-released-brian-reade-1318730
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-19543964
Should be a decent start. Hard to summarize what a cluster**** of saga it has been, the largest sporting tragedy in the UK and the largest cover up.
People have taken it to heart because you've claimed that it was believable that some Liverpool fans may have done the things that were reported in the S*n despite there never being a shred of evidence to support those claims and it now being proven that those lies were fed to the press to smear Liverpool fans and cover the police's arse.
I'm sure there was the odd idiot at the game, just like there is at every football match back then and today however there is nothing to suggest that anybody said or done those disgusting things. And every inquest and panels findings have cleared Liverpool fans from any blame - as David Cameron said:
And when people refer to the police and authorities being to blame for the disaster (as has been proven time and time again), they're not referring to the lower ranking police but the decision makers that caused the disaster and then stooped as low as they did to deflect the blame from themselves.
Soldato
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Is there an article I can read the sums up everything in a nutshell,
The incident (I was young)
The facts
The cover up
Todays findings
Cheers if anyone posts anything in reply to this
This is actually a very good read.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/hillsborough-documents-released-brian-reade-1318730