Home Secretary (finally) allows CBD oil for Billy Caldwell.

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More objective reporting from the Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ers-feel-pain-study-lower-pain-tolerance.html

One day they'll realise they're on the wrong side of this debate.

In this case I thik they're serving a useful purpose in providing dissent. The fashionable position is advocacy of cannabis that verges on devoutly religious authoritarianism, making claims of miracles and suppressing any dissent of any kind to as great a degree as is possible.

There are links between cannabis use and mental illness, especially with (but not limited to) cannabis use in adolescence.

Cannabis is not a panacea. It is not the elixir of life.

Cannabis use might reduce pain tolerance. Have you examined the evidence? Or are you just taking it on faith that cannabis cannot possibly have any adverse side effects regardless of what combination of chemicals is in it (cannabis isn't one chemical - it's a cocktail) and how it's used?

There are reasonable arguments in favour of various degrees of legalisation of cannabis, but they're not the fashionable position and they're swamped by it.
 
Caporegime
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In this case I thik they're serving a useful purpose in providing dissent. The fashionable position is advocacy of cannabis that verges on devoutly religious authoritarianism, making claims of miracles and suppressing any dissent of any kind to as great a degree as is possible.

I think you need to check the dictionary if you think being anti-prohibition is authoritarian lol.
 
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In this case I thik they're serving a useful purpose in providing dissent. The fashionable position is advocacy of cannabis that verges on devoutly religious authoritarianism, making claims of miracles and suppressing any dissent of any kind to as great a degree as is possible.

There are links between cannabis use and mental illness, especially with (but not limited to) cannabis use in adolescence.

Cannabis is not a panacea. It is not the elixir of life.

Cannabis use might reduce pain tolerance. Have you examined the evidence? Or are you just taking it on faith that cannabis cannot possibly have any adverse side effects regardless of what combination of chemicals is in it (cannabis isn't one chemical - it's a cocktail) and how it's used?

There are reasonable arguments in favour of various degrees of legalisation of cannabis, but they're not the fashionable position and they're swamped by it.

You're missing the point entirely. It's not a decision society can make.

All drugs have side effects. It's down to the individual to make an informed choice on the balance of benefit vs risk.
 
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Caporegime
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I think that demanding obedience to such an extent that even voicing dissent for any reason is forbidden is authoritarian. Which dictionary are you using?

The one where libertarianism and authoritarianism are diametrically opposed.

To quote Berry Goldwater, "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice and Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."

Acting as if the daily mail were some sort of paragon of rational dissent instead of mouth-frothing reactionary propaganda is incredulous.
 
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The one where libertarianism and authoritarianism are diametrically opposed.

To quote Berry Goldwater, "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice and Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."

Acting as if the daily mail were some sort of paragon of rational dissent instead of mouth-frothing reactionary propaganda is incredulous.

Good job nobody did it, then.

It would be almost as incredible as claiming that extremism, intolerance and authoritarianism is libertarianism. People who favour extremism, intolerance and authoritarianism always have an excuse and it's usually a claim that it's necessary in defence of <insert ideology or group identity here>. The lie that it's libertarianism is relatively new, though. We have always been at war with Eastasia!

Demanding obedience to such an extent that even voicing dissent for any reason is forbidden is authoritarian. No amount of newspeak will change that.
 
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No one is demanding obedience to anything, suggesting that the daily mail however, a proud supporter of authoritarianism in and of itself is providing useful dissent however is not credible and always tends to belie the more authoritarian prohibition attitudes in my experience.
 
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No one is demanding obedience to anything, suggesting that the daily mail however, a proud supporter of authoritarianism in and of itself is providing useful dissent however is not credible and always tends to belie the more authoritarian prohibition attitudes in my experience.

Plenty of people are demanding obedience to the belief that cannabis is completely harmless and a fair few are demanding obedience to the belief that cannabis is a panacea. Opposition to that is useful dissent even when it appears in a publication so foul that it would contaminate excrement if it was used as toilet paper.
 
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Plenty of people are demanding obedience to the belief that cannabis is completely harmless and a fair few are demanding obedience to the belief that cannabis is a panacea. Opposition to that is useful dissent even when it appears in a publication so foul that it would contaminate excrement if it was used as toilet paper.

Haha, fair enough.
 
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https://www.theguardian.com/busines...be-first-cannabis-based-medicine-on-us-market

A treatment for childhood epilepsy developed by a UK firm has been approved by US regulators and will become the first cannabis-based medicine on the American market.

Epidiolex, made by GW Pharmaceuticals, is set to be launched in the autumn after being approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of two rare and severe forms of epilepsy, Lennox-Gastaut syndrome (LGS) and Dravet syndrome, for patients from the age of two.
 
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I don't really understand the fuss around Cannabis based medicine considering how frequently we use Opiates to treat other conditions. Drugs can be both harmful and helpful. Personally I view Cannabis as far less damaging than alcohol, I've used it from time to time and the fact it's illegal is laughable for what is basically a mild relaxant
 
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I don't really understand the fuss around Cannabis based medicine considering how frequently we use Opiates to treat other conditions. Drugs can be both harmful and helpful. Personally I view Cannabis as far less damaging than alcohol, I've used it from time to time and the fact it's illegal is laughable for what is basically a mild relaxant
Opiates have been tested quite thoroughly by this point, and are only prescribed (in responsible countries at least*) when it is the best option, usually under very strict controls. I've had to collect medications based on it, at depending on exactly what one I was picking up have had to sign additional paperwork (IIRC when I picked up liquid morphine or a slow release patch**).

At the moment people talk about cannabis medication without knowing exactly what all the various compounds do, or in what ratio for each condition, which is an issue if it's to be treated as a proper prescription medication as opposed to something many people really want mainly for "fun".

I have no issues with cannabis based medications, and would like to see the government testing them properly, but I do have an issue with it being used without testing or any proper QC because people have heard it might help when there is no actual evidence it will and no idea what dosage might do it (and if taking too much will make it worse, which basically rules out buying from the street even if there is some evidence it will help at the correct dose).


*Some countries have massive problems because doctors prescribe them like aspirin and don't warn of the addiction risk, and then keep prescribing it for a prolonged period increasing the risk of addiction.

**I vaguely remember the pharmacy had to order the patches in specifically as they didn't carry them, and I think they only ever had a very small supply of the liquid morphine.
 
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I don't really understand the fuss around Cannabis based medicine considering how frequently we use Opiates to treat other conditions. Drugs can be both harmful and helpful. Personally I view Cannabis as far less damaging than alcohol, I've used it from time to time and the fact it's illegal is laughable for what is basically a mild relaxant

Opiates and opiods are well studied, used medically in a pure form and controlled as tightly as is possible in most places. Despite that, they're widely used recreationally and kill a lot of people as a result, also blighting the lives of many more who survive.

Cannabinoids are not well studied and cannabis is an extremely widely varying mixture of chemicals. The effects of some of those chemicals are hardly known. The effects of variations in the proportions of the chemicals are hardly known but what evidence does exist implies that variations in the proportions can result in very different effects even at the same overall dose.

Seperating out medicinal use and recreational use is not realistic. It's never worked anywhere else, so why would it work here? Besides, the idea of "medicinal use" is little more than a tactic used by people lobbying for legal recreational use and people lobbying to be allowed to sell snake oil for their own profit.

The use of properly tested and properly regulated cannabinoid medication is one thing, but that's rarely what people are after and it would take years. Which cannabinoids? In what proportions? At what dosage? What are the contraindications? What are the effects, both beneficial and adverse? Some researchers and some drug companies are asking that question, but the "question" most campaigners are "asking" is "I want to get high now" or "I want to sell unregulated substances with unknown effects and profit wildly from my own untested claims and the hope and fear of other people".

The fact that you refer to cannabis as a single substance with a single mild effect shows that you're not well informed. There's a whole slew of different cannabis (cannabises?) that can have wildly varying effects and some of them are not mild at all. Psychosis, for example. There are also new types of cannabis being created all the time. It's not particularly difficult to do even if you don't have a properly equipped lab and the right knowledge. It can be done by nothing more than selective breeding. It's slower and less precise and more limited in scope, but it works.

That's one of the more rational and pragmatic arguments in favour of legalisation - if it's regulated then it would be possible to at least mostly control it to minimise the risks. If anyone really knew what the risks were and why. For example, there's some evidence that the proportion of THC to CBD is an important factor in the degree of risk, but it's far from proven and can't be without a far better understanding of how cannabinoids work or large scale clinical trials feeding different groups people with different doses and combinations to compare the groups over time. Which would be wildly unethical for a recreational drug.

I've used a variety of drugs recreationally, including cannabis. I don't regard it as being laughable that it's illegal. Debateable? yes. Counter-productive? Maybe. Laughable? Not at all.
 
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The use of properly tested and properly regulated cannabinoid medication is one thing, but that's rarely what people are after and it would take years. Which cannabinoids? In what proportions? At what dosage? What are the contraindications? What are the effects, both beneficial and adverse? Some researchers and some drug companies are asking that question, but the "question" most campaigners are "asking" is "I want to get high now" or "I want to sell unregulated substances with unknown effects and profit wildly from my own untested claims and the hope and fear of other people".

The fact that you refer to cannabis as a single substance with a single mild effect shows that you're not well informed. There's a whole slew of different cannabis (cannabises?) that can have wildly varying effects and some of them are not mild at all. Psychosis, for example. There are also new types of cannabis being created all the time. It's not particularly difficult to do even if you don't have a properly equipped lab and the right knowledge. It can be done by nothing more than selective breeding. It's slower and less precise and more limited in scope, but it works.

That's one of the more rational and pragmatic arguments in favour of legalisation - if it's regulated then it would be possible to at least mostly control it to minimise the risks. If anyone really knew what the risks were and why. For example, there's some evidence that the proportion of THC to CBD is an important factor in the degree of risk, but it's far from proven and can't be without a far better understanding of how cannabinoids work or large scale clinical trials feeding different groups people with different doses and combinations to compare the groups over time. Which would be wildly unethical for a recreational drug.

I've used a variety of drugs recreationally, including cannabis. I don't regard it as being laughable that it's illegal. Debateable? yes. Counter-productive? Maybe. Laughable? Not at all.

Interesting stuff. From what I've seen of the dispensaries in the US states where cannabis is legal (for either rec use, med or both), they have quite a selection which changes all the time as rival companies constantly develop new strains and old strains fall out of fashion. Do you know what processes are in place (if any) to control the type, potency etc of their products?
 
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Interesting stuff. From what I've seen of the dispensaries in the US states where cannabis is legal (for either rec use, med or both), they have quite a selection which changes all the time as rival companies constantly develop new strains and old strains fall out of fashion. Do you know what processes are in place (if any) to control the type, potency etc of their products?

I don't. There would be strident opposition to any, of course, but there might be some. The lack of relevant knowledge would make it impossible to put the right processes in place (because nobody knows what they are), but there might be some. I have seen that there are some limits on THC dose per item sold, but even if that's true it's not really a limit even on just that. If there's a limit of x THC in (for example) a biscuit, then buying 12 biscuits gets you 12x of THC. That's a very weak form of just dosage control of one cannabinoid and it makes no consideration of proportions of cannabinoids. I'm not aware of any evidence of any processes controlling that. Quite the opposite - it appears that it's common to just add pure THC to various edible substances. Given that there is some evidence correlating higher ratios of THC to CBD to harmful effects, I'm not convinced that increasing the ratio to infinity is a good idea.

I think the response to Kurzgesagt's video on cannabis is telling. The video argues in favour of legalising cannabis by giving a fair summary of 3 arguments against legalisation and counter-arguments to each. It also provides references to evidence for all 6 arguments. The reply section is largely a fury of condemnation from cannabis advocates screeching their indignation at Kurzgesagt commiting the heinous sin of acknowledging that cannabis isn't perfection.
 
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I don't. There would be strident opposition to any, of course, but there might be some. The lack of relevant knowledge would make it impossible to put the right processes in place (because nobody knows what they are), but there might be some. I have seen that there are some limits on THC dose per item sold, but even if that's true it's not really a limit even on just that. If there's a limit of x THC in (for example) a biscuit, then buying 12 biscuits gets you 12x of THC. That's a very weak form of just dosage control of one cannabinoid and it makes no consideration of proportions of cannabinoids. I'm not aware of any evidence of any processes controlling that. Quite the opposite - it appears that it's common to just add pure THC to various edible substances. Given that there is some evidence correlating higher ratios of THC to CBD to harmful effects, I'm not convinced that increasing the ratio to infinity is a good idea.

I think the response to Kurzgesagt's video on cannabis is telling. The video argues in favour of legalising cannabis by giving a fair summary of 3 arguments against legalisation and counter-arguments to each. It also provides references to evidence for all 6 arguments. The reply section is largely a fury of condemnation from cannabis advocates screeching their indignation at Kurzgesagt commiting the heinous sin of acknowledging that cannabis isn't perfection.

Yes, I see. While I'm generally in favour of allowing its use (both mediacally and recreationally), I agree that many advocates treat any concerns with total rejection. It does sometimes seem a bit cult-like and blinkered.

I'll check that video out, cheers.
 
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Not sure where to put this but does this stuff actually work reducing anxiety naturally rather than taking prescribed tablets?

There is so much out there, where do you begin to look?
 
Caporegime
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If you've been prescribed something by your GP then I'd speak to them about that, it is against the rules for anyone to offer you medical advice on these forums.

I certainly wouldn't want to take anything "alternative" in place of something prescribed by a medical professional. If your GP is happy for you to take something alongside you current meds then that is perhaps another matter, but it is something for you to speak to them about.
 
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