How many buy Grey vs Local ?

Energize · 20 May 2015 at 18:25

D.P. said:
I can also see why people go grey and it can make sense but people shouldn't be deluded into thinking the savings don't largely come from tax fraud and other business practices that are unsavory, e.g. Splitting lens kits , selling lightly used refurbs as new. It certainly isn't the case that they simply lower their margins, margins are already low.l which is why high street stores struggle.

I'm struggling to see how splitting lens kits is "unsavory", I think everyone realises it's tax fraud, but not following big brothers tax rules doesn't make it immoral.

Jony27 · 20 May 2015 at 19:26

Just took delivery of my D3300 body from PortUs through FedEx and didn't have to pay any tax/VAT.
Saved a good £100 which is a lot for some people.
Would definitely go grey again. although some things just aren't worth it for £5 savings.

Irish_Tom · 21 May 2015 at 08:38

Jony27 said:
Just took delivery of my D3300 body from PortUs through FedEx and didn't have to pay any tax/VAT.
Saved a good £100 which is a lot for some people.
Would definitely go grey again. although some things just aren't worth it for £5 savings.

I think the point D.P. is making is, technically you DO have to pay VAT (if you want to do things legally) it's just that Portus haven't charged you for it.

So effectively you should declare the purchase to customs and pay any VAT that's due.

Steve M · 21 May 2015 at 09:02

Many people simply don't care and will always go for the cheapest option.

Money talks. It always has and always will.

Steve M · 21 May 2015 at 09:10

D.P. said:
people shouldn't be deluded into thinking the savings don't largely come from tax fraud and other business practices that are unsavory...

Is it just tax fraud you object to?

Do you for instance object or care about the poor conditions and pay many of the workers that make these electrical products have to endure to feed their families or is it just the UK coffers missing out on tax revenue that you're against?

Qdos · 22 May 2015 at 13:38

Steve M said:
Is it just tax fraud you object to?

Do you for instance object or care about the poor conditions and pay many of the workers that make these electrical products have to endure to feed their families

You do realise that all these cameras and accessories will be made in the same factory, regardless of whether they are grey import or standard UK/USA/wherever retail?

Steve M said:
or is it just the UK coffers missing out on tax revenue that you're against?

Do you also boycott the likes of Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Facebook et al because they don't pay their full share of tax? Doubt it.

Steve M · 22 May 2015 at 13:51

Qdos said:
You do realise that all these cameras and accessories will be made in the same factory, regardless of whether they are grey import or standard UK/USA/wherever retail?

Do you also boycott the likes of Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Facebook et al because they don't pay their full share of tax? Doubt it.

You've got the wrong end of the stick. I couldn't care less mate, I always buy whatever is cheaper. I'm fully aware of how the grey market works thanks.

I was asking D.P. who does have an issue, if it's just tax fraud that gets his goat. I was then gonna ask him if he boycotted likes of Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Facebook too ha ha

Keep up.

jonneymendoza · 22 May 2015 at 15:01

Maybe DP doesnt drink coffee hehe

Qdos · 22 May 2015 at 16:54

Steve M said:
You've got the wrong end of the stick. I couldn't care less mate, I always buy whatever is cheaper. I'm fully aware of how the grey market works thanks.

Are you sure? Because your initial post suggests otherwise.

Steve M said:
I was asking D.P. who does have an issue, if it's just tax fraud that gets his goat. I was then gonna ask him if he boycotted likes of Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Facebook too ha ha

Keep up.

Keep up? Sounds like I'm way ahead of you, buddy.

Steve M · 22 May 2015 at 17:05

Qdos said:
Are you sure? Because your initial post suggests otherwise.

Keep up? Sounds like I'm way ahead of you, buddy.

What are you on about?

I was asking D.P. if it was just tax fraud (his words) he objected to and was asking if he cared about other issues such as the crap working conditions in the factories. I was wondering in which direction his moral compass pointed. I personally have no problem at all buying grey (or care about the conditions in the factories).

I never said grey stock didn't come from the same factories as standard stock. I know it does. No idea why you made that point? Well, I think I do know, you've done that classic internet forum thing when you've jumped in and replied to a post you didn't read properly or understand.

For you then to ask if I boycott Google, Starbucks ect clearly demonstrates that you do indeed have the wrong end of the stick. Very much so. I'm not the one banging on about tax avoidence, he was!

jonneymendoza · 22 May 2015 at 17:10

Steve M said:
What are you on about?

was about to say

D.P. · 22 May 2015 at 19:50

Steve M said:
Is it just tax fraud you object to?

Do you for instance object or care about the poor conditions and pay many of the workers that make these electrical products have to endure to feed their families or is it just the UK coffers missing out on tax revenue that you're against?

Funny, my wife is a professor of bossiness ethics and so yes, we consider a lot of factors in companies we buy from. The main camera manufactures aren't under much scrutiny but their worker conditions appear good. Remember the pro Nikon and Canon stuff is made in Japan. The only company that makes cameras that I know of to avoid if you are concerned about ethics is Samsung.

Everyone hates paying taxes but that doesn't make it right to commit tax fraud. There are perfectly legal ways to reduce tax exposure with camera equipment if you do anything semi-professionally at least then set yourself up as a business and not only can you avoid VAT but the cost of the camera and gear can be offset against your profits.

traveyb · 23 May 2015 at 14:17

Still sitting on the fence with this regarding risk vs reward.
After a new Sony A7 Mark II, Local with kit lens is £1649, Grey/DR is £1199 or Body only is £1399/£1069. So looks like they save money with the lens bundles?

Qdos · 23 May 2015 at 20:40

D.P. said:
my wife is a professor of bossiness ethics

Freudian slip D.P.?

DeathStorm · 24 May 2015 at 02:26

Steve M said:
Do you for instance object or care about the poor conditions and pay many of the workers that make these electrical products have to endure to feed their families or is it just the UK coffers missing out on tax revenue that you're against?

Care to explain what magical wonderful job those workers would be doing instead?

Qdos · 25 May 2015 at 22:29

DeathStorm said:
Care to explain what magical wonderful job those workers would be doing instead?

Apparently it was meant to be sarcastic, we've all just got the wrong end of the stick.... :rolleyes:

9designs2 · 27 May 2015 at 23:40

So new dilemma, I have my "grey" 7200 now, very nice to, even came in a body only box, no missing kit lens trick....

Looking at the 80-400 before the cash back offer ends..... I have from surrendering my reward points on my Credit card £235 of Amazon vouchers, plus the 275 Cash back gives me £510 off the £1899 advertised price..... which ends up about the same as grey item !!!

Stay grey and spend the vouchers on something else or be all moral and go local ?

Energize · 28 May 2015 at 00:44

Meh why throw away £500? Even if you paid VAT on the grey import it would still be £300 cheaper and totally legal...

D.P. · 28 May 2015 at 01:57

If you pay VAT in the grey than I would go that route, do make sure it is the new version though.

D.P. · 28 May 2015 at 17:33

Classic case of splitting up a kit lens and loosing pieces in the process, or worse.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28013979&postcount=18