How many DINKs here?

adam cool dude said:
How can it be nonsense until you have done it? Surely someone who has had kids is better to judge than someone who hasn't as they have seen both sides of the coin?

Judging by a lot of comments on here it seems a lot of couple are only together for financial reasons as well and deep down would most likely prefer being single bachelors if they could afford it. Even being in a non child relationship requires giving up your time to be with the other. My partner and I pretty much do everything together. She isn't just a women but also my best friend. We give our time to each other. No different to what we would do with a child.
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People see relationships differently.

Some people will be in it to help Financially and almost be friends. And nothing wrong with that if both are happy that way.

I'm quite independent. I do a lot of things on my own. They are my hobbies. You can still be an individual. You don't have to merge two people into one to be in a relationship.


Ita fair to say I don't know what it's like to have a kid. There's also a chance I'd like it... Although very slim.
As humans we are able to make very educated predictions on how we would feel if....x, y, z

But for kids:
-I know I struggle with increased responsibility
-I know I have absolutely no love for kids in general
-I know our standard of living would drop from above average to below average of we had kids
-I know I would lose travel which I value a lot.
-I know I live away from my support network so would have no help.


So really there are 0 tangible benefits and many many draw backs to having kids for me.

When you don't feel that instinctive draw to have kids it makes no sense. No way I'm gambling on ruining a kids life by being a bad parent just on the off chance I'm wrong. Or.. In the end I will love it.


The consequences of that gamble are horrendous to contemplate
 
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adam cool dude said:
I never said that but the love you have for a child as a father figure is not the same as being with your wife. Whether biological or not.
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You were replying to the-evaluator being told "you can't know love until you have children". Which implies when somebody has their first child it is with someone they don't love.

I'm happy to take you at your word that you meant a different kind of love, and I think I understand the idea (see my unconditional love post above). However, I don't think we can judge people who have no interest in this other kind of love. Maybe they would be happier, maybe not.
 
adam cool dude said:
How can it be nonsense until you have done it? Surely someone who has had kids is better to judge than someone who hasn't as they have seen both sides of the coin?
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Only if you waited til you were in your 40s to see what it felt like not having kids... :)

I don't think it's realistically possible to truly know both sides of this feeling at the scale we're discussing here. We're discussing not having kids as a life choice, for life. For instance my sister had kids at 21 and 23, now they're almost both old enough to move out and at 40 she'll be able to do all the travelling, freedom etc. Meanwhile I'm 35 and have barely begun to have the drive or financial resources to start doing that same living. So she's nailed that timing there, but was I free to enjoy life without kids in the same period? Not really, I was somewhere between minimum wage, debt, couch surfing, and ****ty house shares. I've only changed my circumstances in the last few years. I can't really know her side of the coin and she probably doesn't know how it would have felt being childless either.
 
LuckyBenski said:
Only if you waited til you were in your 40s to see what it felt like not having kids... :)

I don't think it's realistically possible to truly know both sides of this feeling at the scale we're discussing here. We're discussing not having kids as a life choice, for life. For instance my sister had kids at 21 and 23, now they're almost both old enough to move out and at 40 she'll be able to do all the travelling, freedom etc. Meanwhile I'm 35 and have barely begun to have the drive or financial resources to start doing that same living. So she's nailed that timing there, but was I free to enjoy life without kids in the same period? Not really, I was somewhere between minimum wage, debt, couch surfing, and ****ty house shares. I've only changed my circumstances in the last few years. I can't really know her side of the coin and she probably doesn't know how it would have felt being childless either.
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Same as me. Kind of floundered in my 20s. Definitely wasted it.


Im now 37 and only in last 3 years (bout house in 2020) have I gotten in my feet.
So it's too late to do the family and the travelling thing.
Luckily I don't want kids. So I can pursue the other and not get to later years with regrets.

A lot of this is my fault. Not the "state of the world". I made poor decisions with relationships, jobs, just bad decisions. Or worse. Just going with the flow.
 
Tuppy_Glossop said:
You were replying to the-evaluator being told "you can't know love until you have children". Which implies when somebody has their first child it is with someone they don't love.

I'm happy to take you at your word that you meant a different kind of love, and I think I understand the idea (see my unconditional love post above). However, I don't think we can judge people who have no interest in this other kind of love. Maybe they would be happier, maybe not.
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Apologies if it came across wrong but that wasn't my inclination that childless couples cannot love. Merely my experience of what changes within you when you have children or become a father figure as in your case. It is a different kind of love that doesn't happen in a relationship. At least that is how it has been with myself. For others it maybe different.
 
adam cool dude said:
Apologies if it came across wrong but that wasn't my inclination that childless couples cannot love. Merely my experience of what changes within you when you have children or become a father figure as in your case. It is a different kind of love that doesn't happen in a relationship. At least that is how it has been with myself. For others it maybe different.
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I think its fair to say this.
I didn't want our dog when we got him. Because I know it's a bind (having to arrange boarding for holidays etc).
But I love that boy now. He's such a lovely boy. And knowing he was adopted from a street (he was on course to be put down otherwise I believe) it feels even more rewarding.


But I have always liked animals. I still think it was a bad decision in terms of denting person freedom. But I can still leave the dog and go do stuff. And I do sometimes feel the restriction.

Its actually made me more sure I don't want kids. Because kids are a step up from this. More time, more cost, more responsibility.


But I do understand there is a different love when you actually get one of these dependant life forms.
 
adam cool dude said:
I never said that but the love you have for a child as a father figure is not the same as being with your wife. Whether biological or not.
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It may very well be for you.

The things the parents say to their kids next door I'd never dream of saying to most people and definitely not a child.

Anyway, I care what happens to kids in general because I don't have my own. That makes a good balance as many parents on really care about their own kids.

It's the same way I can have balanced views about all religions as I'm not religious.
 
It's genetically and socially hard coded that when you have a kid you devote your life to its wellbeing, bringing it worms, puking fish i to its mouth etc, at least for 99% of parents I'd imagine. There's always anomalies.

I'm sure if I had a kid I'd look after it exceptionally well, be the best dad ever etc....
 
adam cool dude said:
I was like you say until I had my first. Completely self obsessed and hated the sight of kids. Then I changed completely so it is not quite that simple. Almost like thousands of years of evolution triggered something inside myself.
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I'm not sure that's quite the sensible strategy, have children even though you don't like them on the off chance you might like them when you do?
 
I think life has moulded me the right way to not have kids. When I was 21 I was inspired to be a young father, with a young mother, be on a train, kids screaming out. But no it didn't happen. Nowadays I'd be happy with a cat.
 
adam cool dude said:
How can it be nonsense until you have done it? Surely someone who has had kids is better to judge than someone who hasn't as they have seen both sides of the coin?

Judging by a lot of comments on here it seems a lot of couple are only together for financial reasons as well and deep down would most likely prefer being single bachelors if they could afford it. Even being in a non child relationship requires giving up your time to be with the other. My partner and I pretty much do everything together. She isn't just a women but also my best friend. We give our time to each other. No different to what we would do with a child.
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I can see why people who choose not to have kids get a bit shirty when they're told nonsense like this :(
 
ultralaser said:
I'm not sure that's quite the sensible strategy, have children even though you don't like them on the off chance you might like them when you do?
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I never said it was sensible. Just providing my experience where it was something I didn't like but glad I did. I was an only child and my father was a career soldier so having a family was the last thing on my mind.
 
Haggisman said:
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I can see why people who choose not to have kids get a bit shirty when they're told nonsense like this :(
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I guess you are right. If there is one thing I have learnt from this thread it is just how different peoples views are on the subject. For me it is the best thing that happened in my life and brought a sense of meaning to my life. I just cannot understand why people would not want that and try to put reasoning behind it when in reality it is just simply a choice.
 
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