Poll: Hungarian Grand Prix 2021, Budapest - Race 11/23

[Kenai]

It sounds like there was a faulty sensor somewhere that led them to believe more was onboard than there was. I don't see how else to interpret their statement regarding ba calculation of 1.44l left.

I got the impression they were hoping for leniency on the basis that either a) they genuinely thought there was more fuel or b) there is more fuel, it just can't be extracted as per the expectations of the scrutineers.

I don't think either is going to get them very far though.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Did they also take a fuel sample of Ocon's car for the same reason? (Genuine question)

If we are going to be fair about it, he also stopped out on track and this should also therefore raise an eyebrow and encourage an immediate sample.

Whether or not it appeared he stopped there as it was closer to the pit lane, surely the onus would be on the stewards to fully investigate and satisfy themselves he hadn't run out of fuel?

Did they do so?

 

[Mr Jack]

Did they do so?

According to the scrutineering document, they only took a sample from Max's car. They only check stuff on a subset of cars each race.

 

[Kenai]

Did they also take a fuel sample of Ocon's car for the same reason? (Genuine question)

If we are going to be fair about it, he also stopped out on track and this should also therefore raise an eyebrow and encourage an immediate sample.

Whether or not it appeared he stopped there as it was closer to the pit lane, surely the onus would be on the stewards to fully investigate and satisfy themselves he hadn't run out of fuel?

Did they do so?

I don't think they publish who they test* - the notice published yesterday was simply that Vettel's car had failed to provide the full sample. Difference is with Ocon, he drove further - i.e. he did a parade lap and then missed the pits. Vettel didn't manage to complete the parade lap. One was obviously a mistake, one is far more indicative of 'this car is probably low fuel'.


*edit - I stand corrected, as per @Mr Jack , they do.

It was checked on car number 05, 63 and 06 whether a 1.0 litre sample of fuel could be taken from the car.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

OK interesting.

I understand that Ocon's positioning may have been a mistake but how do the stewards know for sure there wasn't also a fuel issue?

It does feel somewhat inconsistent. But it's their prerogative I guess.

 

[Greboth]

From what I'm reading the fuel is there, just it can't be pumped out, so presumably they can take the car apart to get to it. From what I read they're going to claim that if/when they do that and get >1 litre remaining (after the 300ml sample), and given that 300ml is enough to test, that they shouldn't get penalised...

It's about as likely as RB's craziness

It reminds me of, I think it was BAR Honda, who fell foul in a similar fashion as their fuel tank had a small surge tank built in which would always have to be full of fuel. Come testing though the ‘main’ tank didn’t have enough fuel in. From memory they just had to take the penalty and I can’t it changing for AM even if they do dismantle the car and provide the fuel.

Did they also take a fuel sample of Ocon's car for the same reason? (Genuine question)

If we are going to be fair about it, he also stopped out on track and this should also therefore raise an eyebrow and encourage an immediate sample.

Whether or not it appeared he stopped there as it was closer to the pit lane, surely the onus would be on the stewards to fully investigate and satisfy themselves he hadn't run out of fuel?

Did they do so?

It’s random who they choose but they don’t publicise who they choose beforehand for obvious reasons. How the random drawnis done though, I don’t know.

 

[Kenai]

OK interesting.

I understand that Ocon's positioning may have been a mistake but how do the stewards know that for sure?

It does feel somewhat inconsistent. But it's their prerogative I guess.

It's hardly indicative of low fuel though is it? Driving a little bit further than you're meant to?

Unlike a car that can't even manage to complete the parade lap.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

It's hardly indicative of low fuel though is it? Driving a little bit further than you're meant to?

Unlike a car that can't even manage to complete the parade lap.

Earlier there was a comment about it raising red flags if you stop on track without getting back to Parc ferme under your own steam.

Fully appreciate its a different scenario but he dumped the car rather than getting round the track again to the pit entry. Yes it's an extra lap but should he have been compelled to do that and suffer the consequences re fuel rather than parking up at the pit exit?

He has been reprimanded for not following post race protocols but what do the actual rules say should happen in that scenario? Should he have gone all the way around the track again? (Again a genuine question).

 

[this_is_gav]

He has been reprimanded for not following post race protocols but what do the actual rules say should happen in that scenario? Should he have gone all the way around the track again? (Again a genuine question).

Mahaveer Raghunathan did it in F2 and he was handed a 10 place penalty for the next race, though he apparently did his second lap at speed*, so I'm guessing he was given a more sever penalty for the safety implications.

* A rare case of "Raghunathan" and "speed" appearing in a sentence.

 

[mmj_uk]

I'd assume that the reprimand is just so that he (and any other drivers paying attention) know what to do next time. It didn't have any real bearing on the outcome of the race unlike carrying too little fuel or consuming too much fuel. I doubt that any of the teams fuel the cars to be able to able to do 2 additional laps, why carry extra fuel that you don't need for 70 laps? it's just extra weight you're carrying throughout the whole race.

 

[MrKnifey]

I'll have to check the blue book, but I'm sure we get DQ if we take the chequered flag twice?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

This was my first thought too:

 

[MissChief]

10/10 for me.

What a fairytale.
The team I've supported since I started watching f1 back on the top step. Thought it might never happen.

I remember alonsos first win here. And brought back the memories and emotions of alonsos two winning years .. So long ago.

It's was an amazing team effort. Ocon owes that win to alonso and himself. But Ocon absorbed all that pressure. And alonso with Hamilton is my absolute highlight of the season.

I'm so glad to be proved wrong about alonso coming back. Today was epic.

What a race.

I admit I got emotional when saw alonso and Ocon on the final parade lap.

It was actually really great to see Alonso so happy for Esteban and the team as well. A very different driver than ten years ago when he would have been fuming that it wasn’t him that won.

George on the verge of tears for finally getting points for the team, and both of them in the points too. His message to the team showed great maturity and a real team ethic too.

 

[utajoker]

https://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/12/...ish-grand-prix-qualifying-hamilton/index.html

Hamilton dq from quali for not enough fuel. Last time I remember it happening.

 

[cuke2u]

It reminds me of, I think it was BAR Honda, who fell foul in a similar fashion as their fuel tank had a small surge tank built in which would always have to be full of fuel. Come testing though the ‘main’ tank didn’t have enough fuel in. From memory they just had to take the penalty and I can’t it changing for AM even if they do dismantle the car and provide the fuel.



It’s random who they choose but they don’t publicise who they choose beforehand for obvious reasons. How the random drawnis done though, I don’t know.

Post #967...

 

[Mr Jack]

I stand corrected, as per @Mr Jack , they do.

I also stand corrected, I only spotted this later on, and miss the line stating the other three drivers had a sample taken:

A fuel sample was taken from car number 33.

The fuel samples have been checked for density and analysed by gas chromatography.

The results of all the fuel analyses show that the fuels were the same as ones, which had been
approved for use by the relevant competitors prior to the Event.
Further the density change of the fuel samples taken today was within the permitted limits.​

The document is here if anyone wants to read it.

 

[Kenai]

Earlier there was a comment about it raising red flags if you stop on track without getting back to Parc ferme under your own steam.

Fully appreciate its a different scenario but he dumped the car rather than getting round the track again to the pit entry. Yes it's an extra lap but should he have been compelled to do that and suffer the consequences re fuel rather than parking up at the pit exit?

He has been reprimanded for not following post race protocols but what do the actual rules say should happen in that scenario? Should he have gone all the way around the track again? (Again a genuine question).

I don't think there's any obligation to do another lap.

What the relevant Sporting regs say is:

After receiving the end-of-race signal all cars must proceed on the circuit directly to the postrace parc fermé without any unnecessary delay, without receiving any object whatsoever and without any assistance (except that of the marshals if necessary).

So if anything, if you manage to screw up and miss the turning to parc ferme, I suspect they'd rather you stopped than do another lap. I guess they'd view that as 'unnecessary delay', even within the winners exemptions to the above rule.

With regards stopping on track

Any classified car which cannot reach the post-race parc fermé under its own power will be placed under the exclusive control of the marshals who will take the car to the parc fermé.

I don't think there is anything more specific to the scenario of 'can reach the post-race parc ferme under it's own power but managed to miss the pit entrance'

 

[Mr Jack]

He has been reprimanded for not following post race protocols but what do the actual rules say should happen in that scenario? Should he have gone all the way around the track again? (Again a genuine question).

He should have gone into the pits and stopped at the number 1 board as instructed. It doesn't really matter how he failed to do that, only that he did. I suspect he'd have gone a more severe punishment for going round again as that could be dangerous since marshals, etc. aren't expecting a live track.

 

[GR63]

Over 80% voted 8/10 or above... it was a good race....

 

[GR63]

Did they also take a fuel sample of Ocon's car for the same reason? (Genuine question)

If we are going to be fair about it, he also stopped out on track and this should also therefore raise an eyebrow and encourage an immediate sample.

Whether or not it appeared he stopped there as it was closer to the pit lane, surely the onus would be on the stewards to fully investigate and satisfy themselves he hadn't run out of fuel?

Did they do so?

IDK but I think you're right.. stopping on track at race end should be "insta test" regardless